Orochi doesn't need nerf ,you need learn to play CHECK HERE | Forums

[N1GTHCR0W]

look at this viking ,he doesn't know how to play ,raider is the most powerful on the info graphic ,but the guy has killed so easily

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[Be1dou]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody uses the ''YOU just need to learn how to play.'' excuse... At what point does our opinion become valid? If we're too good, then people say ''If you're good against the Orochi, then they aren't OP.'' If you suck, then people say ''Git gud.'' Also, the results from the lasted closed alpha doesn't really mean anything in terms of actual balancing of mechanics and such. The results are too broad to say x character is the most powerful, simply because they have more victories. The Raider is just decent in the metagame, as they don't have a lot going for them, but they are pretty easy to pick up and play.

Anyways, I'm not close to being one of the top players in this game, but I've been playtesting the game for nearly a year longer than the recent alpha, 13th place in duel mode in the last alpha with 97% wins on PC--nearly flawless on PS4, and if that means anything to you then here are my thoughts:

The Orochi isn't impossible to defeat, but they sure as hell are broken. I don't want to beat a dead horse by ranting about Deflect and Storm Rush again, so I'll just say this.

I apologize if this offends the players of the video above and come off snobby and condescending, but...THIS IS SOMETHING YOU WON'T KNOW FROM NEWBIE GAMEPLAY. REPEAT, THIS IS SOMETHING YOU WON'T UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU'RE ONE OF THE BETTER, MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND COMPETITIVE PLAYERS.

It's only in the metagame, where you're facing players almost equally as skilled and knowledgeable with all of the skill sets and tricks, that you can really come to grips with the flaws and imbalances of the game--to which there is A LOT, admittedly.

[Dez_troi_aR]

If I had a nickel for every time somebody uses the ''YOU just need to learn how to play.'' excuse... At what point does our opinion become valid? If we're too good, then people say ''If you're good against the Orochi, then they aren't OP.'' If you suck, then people say ''Git gud.'' Also, the results from the lasted closed alpha doesn't really mean anything in terms of actual balancing of mechanics and such. The results are too broad to say x character is the most powerful, simply because they have more victories. The Raider is just decent in the metagame, as they don't have a lot going for them, but they are pretty easy to pick up and play.

Anyways, I'm not close to being one of the top players in this game, but I've been playtesting the game for nearly a year longer than the recent alpha, 13th place in duel mode in the last alpha with 97% wins on PC--nearly flawless on PS4, and if that means anything to you then here are my thoughts:

The Orochi isn't impossible to defeat, but they sure as hell are broken. I don't want to beat a dead horse by ranting about Deflect and Storm Rush again, so I'll just say this.

I apologize if this offends the players of the video above and come off snobby and condescending, but...THIS IS SOMETHING YOU WON'T KNOW FROM NEWBIE GAMEPLAY. REPEAT, THIS IS SOMETHING YOU WON'T UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU'RE ONE OF THE BETTER, MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND COMPETITIVE PLAYERS.

It's only in the metagame, where you're facing players almost equally as skilled and knowledgeable with all of the skill sets and tricks, that you can really come to grips with the flaws and imbalances of the game--to which there is A LOT, admittedly.

Could you go more into detail, Fatal ?
I never saw feedback from an experienced top-player, only the average comments. I'd like to hear yours.

[Be1dou]

Could you go more into detail, Fatal ?
I never saw feedback from an experienced top-player, only the average comments. I'd like to hear yours.

Sure thing.

To start off with the Raider, just like the other Vanguards, they don't have a skill set that can be considered broken and unfair. Underwhelming, if anything. Their most notable abilities are the Guardbreak -> wall stun combo and their unblockable attack. Unless you play the Berserker, Guardbreak isn't really reliable, nor easy to pull off since most veterans have their Guardbreak counter timing down. It's also easy to punish players spamming Guardbreak. Their unblockable attack may be powerful and, ahem, unblockable, but it's simply loses its advantages once the enemies nail down their dodge/parry timing for it. This isn't to say that they're weak, a very good player knows that feinting is the Raider's best asset, but I digress.

As for the Orochi, I don't want to beat a dead horse so I won't go too much into details and I'll just repeat one point I wrote to a comment on YouTube.

Deflect and Storm Rush (coupled with their speed and Zephyr Slash) is so fundamentally broken that the Orochi is a better tank than the Conqueror! Deflect is so easy to execute, it can be done by accident, giving your opponent very few options on the offensive, and because it's external, the Orochi is even great at 2-3v1 battles. Storm Rush is the ultimate, most abusive attack in the game. Not only is it a damn quick dodging maneuver, it deals a hefty amount of damage to your opponent and when you combine it with an up combo, you can nearly half the Raider's health in seconds with minimal effort. And because it sacrifices so little stamina, the Orochi, just like the video in the OP, can simply spam it all day long. Comparatively, the Raider's unblockable is slow, requires them to sacrifice half of their stamina, and it can be avoided or parried. The Kensei's unblockable requires a chain 3 combo, and can also be easily dodge or parried. I know you can parry Storm Rush, but its timing is the most difficult for me, and you can't parry it when it's used as a counter attack.

The only way to stand against a good Orochi is to be on the defensive and wait for them to make the first move. Otherwise, you might as well just stand there and give them free hits. Yeah, the Orochi is so broken that YOU have to be on the defensive. The Orochi is an Assassin hero, which means being on the offensive is exactly the position they want to be in, with their speed and damage. Unless you're playing a Berserker and abusing walling or play a Conqueror and have a 15 minute match of who attacks first, you are ALWAYS at a disadvantage against an Orochi.

As for some of the other imbalances of the game...

1. Deflect is also broken for the Berserker, which makes them almost impossible to defeat near a wall or ledge.

2. There is no way to counter a Conqueror that corners you against a wall and repeats the shield bash -> attack combo.

[Ymir.exe]

Some people seem to think that as long as it's somehow POSSIBLE, at all, to defeat a class, then it's not OP. Apparently something is only overpowered if it's literally impossible to beat. The fact is that if you take a skilled, or unskilled player, and let them play every class we had available for the alpha, then they'd get the most kills for the least amount of effort with the orochi. Because it's simply easier to do well with than the others, due to it having more strengths than the others, and fewer weaknesses. And that's overpowered.

[Dez_troi_aR]

Thanks for the answer fatal-feit!
Some of these problems seem to be pretty fundamental.

[MathiasCB]

Atleast they're looking into deflect, so i guess we've got that part covered already. All thats left is storm rush, even if it were to use 100% more stamina, it wouldn't even be enough in my opinion.

[PowerSenpai]

Atleast they're looking into deflect, so i guess we've got that part covered already. All thats left is storm rush, even if it were to use 100% more stamina, it wouldn't even be enough in my opinion.

100% refer to double of what it already is, so i agree that it is not enough, but i definitely think it is a matter of balancing it's stamina usage.

[Ymir.exe]

Even if it drained all stamina you'd still end up with a super quick move that does a ton of damage. The only difference is that it would be used as a finisher instead. They need to make it slower, so that people can see it coming, and block it. Do that and you can keep the 50% cost.

[MathiasCB]

Fast would be fine as long as it's not as spammable. The damage from the storm rush itself is pretty fine, the damage issue comes with the two free lights you get after it... Slower might help people not used to the speed, but as long as it's spammable, it will continue to be an issue.