NO to stats on gear! | Forums

[Ishesses]

I always viewed the stats as a way to customize your gameplay, so I like the idea of Free Stat Customization. This allows you to get the fighting style you want without having the edge on someone else just because you have better stuff. Right now, the stats are random so you can't pick what stat you want and as Muppetlords said, when it takes one less light attack to finish an ennemy, you have the advantage. I've finished a lot of fight with barely any health on. I would have been dead if my opponent had a better sword.

Also, from the moment I saw the game, I always imagined it as an ESport. If my personal major issues get fixed (lag and controller support), I will probably make the game my main and play competitively. So I'd like it if it were to be an ESport with fair fights.

And I think if they don't change the stats system, they should at least give an option to disable it on servers to have competitive matches or tournaments. If there is at least that, then I won't mind the system at all.

[Muppetlords]

You'v said that if you want defense you pick conqueror, and offensive berserker. But let's say you like the conqueror most but you would like him to have a bit more atk speed while lowering defense a bit just to suit you is that bad ?

In league of legends you prepare runes in books for example (which are like weapon stats here).

Heroes of the storm allows you to pick what you like with your character (there are multiple ways to change him) so it's like your manipulation of character stats through weapon loadouts.

Halo 3 is good example for your case but there are games like destiny, firefall, warframe, division, world of tanks (it's still a shooter) which have stats and are great games with lot's of players.

Overwatch and cs i do agree.

I don't think that dota 2 (league of legends too in this aspect) isn't good example since without picking items your most likely dead meat. You gotta pick items that you like to pick with the hero for given situation. Only starting from that you can say it's skill based. If not please try picking any character and go with totally no items and win. I guarantee that unless enemies are dumb as **** ur gonna lose. That means that after picking ur character you'r changing his stats. And hey i know that skin doesn't change stats but you can stay with default skin in for honor with ur armor by changing it's outlook for 300 gold if i remember correctly.

There's ton of games which have stats and are still skill based like lol, c9, bns, black desert, guild wars 1 and 2, tera, raiderz, neverwinter online, vindictus, firefall. And it's just top of the iceberg. And there's a ton more of these which you most likely don't even know of Like ragnarok online etc.

In my opinion it's good it allows you to pick ur stats to aid your playstyle (which is tested and aproved for example by league of legends), if they leave out stats and make game without them i feel fights will be fine as well, but it would for example start looking like cs:go which didn't change since start. There's some playerbase but in my opinion it's boring when all you can do is use forever the same unchanging weapon, sometimes you would want to try some other kind like more dmg, less range etc. In cs:go you can pick any of available weapons (and there's quite a few of them) with your beloved character.

So in my opinion stats are fine unless they overdo it and make the blade like x3 dmg or 2x atk speed etc. I like the way it adjusts them a bit more to your playstyle. This way each fight with each conqueror can be different since one will be able to recover from stun faster one will be a bit faster and other stuff like that.

The runes in League are so incredibly minor that they really only help you the first 5 minutes or so of the game, even a full runepage generally gives you less of a boost to your stats than the first item you get. Sure...they could affect the later stages as well but it's very unlikely. Meanwhile the items in For Honor looks like they could potentially almost DOUBLE your your damage output or defense or whatever. If they tuned it down to rune levels...they could keep them but at that point it might as well not be in there at all.

Items in league and dota works because you can change them ingame. You can see what your enemies are running and counter their build with your own, therefor I see these as almost completely skill based games. In For Honor you can't adapt in the middle of a fight to fit your enemies gear. If you've got **** luck then you will meet someone who has your counterbuild and you'll have to fight twice as hard to try to win. That shouldn't be the case.

The problems with the games you bring up is that none of them are really known for their pvp. (except league and dota which I've already addressed.) Maybe that's for a reason.

I agree that CS:GO is boring due to it's lack of change. But this wouldn't have to be that typ of game. There's already a planned season pass that will add more characters (what else could it be?) and that would keep the game fresh in the same way that new champions in League keeps that game fresh. As long as it has a large enough player base the game will get continuously supported with new additions.

"This way each fight with each conqueror can be different since one will be able to recover from stun faster one will be a bit faster and other stuff like that."

Your character shouldn't recover from a stun faster than any other with the same guy. Instead how about you "git gud" and don't get stunned at all eh?

[Muppetlords]

I also came across a very good point made by someone on another post.

"Matchmaking is done before you pick your Hero, as it should be, so we can pick our Hero according to our allies' picks. So, the game doesn't know the level of the Hero you're gonna pick."

What that means is that you could very well end up facing someone who has either way lower or way higher gear level than yourself.

If that's going to be the case. This game will be ****ing dead after a few months because every new player will get slaughtered.

[ArtieDayne]

I also came across a very good point made by someone on another post.

"Matchmaking is done before you pick your Hero, as it should be, so we can pick our Hero according to our allies' picks. So, the game doesn't know the level of the Hero you're gonna pick."

What that means is that you could very well end up facing someone who has either way lower or way higher gear level than yourself.

If that's going to be the case. This game will be ****ing dead after a few months because every new player will get slaughtered.

I don't know, I think it's difficult to say how much of a difference it will make. New players are going to be at a big disadvantage anyway because it's a high skill floor and high skill cap game. I also don't think it takes very long to get good gear on a character, people were getting really good weapons just after a few days in the alpha.

[Muppetlords]

I don't know, I think it's difficult to say how much of a difference it will make. New players are going to be at a big disadvantage anyway because it's a high skill floor and high skill cap game. I also don't think it takes very long to get good gear on a character, people were getting really good weapons just after a few days in the alpha.

Keyword here is "in the alpha" first of all 90% of the players were noobs, no one knew what they were doing. new players were facing new players. Everyone was on equal ground pretty much. Unless there's a pretty big constant flow of new players that wont be the case in the full game. After a few weeks there will be good players everywhere.
Also we're not sure how fast the progression will be in the full game. It's very possible that it's sped up during the alpha.

That's just without the stats. How do you think new players will feel when they're not only getting they're asses kicked by someone who has played the game for 100 hours more than them, but then they also find out it's because he has gear that makes them do less damage to him and he of course does more to them. Do you think they will enjoy their experience? Do you think they will stay?

I think most new players will be able to accept that someone who has played longer than them is better. But when there's some major unfair advantage behind that success...I'm not sure sure they'll come around.

[ArtieDayne]

Keyword here is "in the alpha" first of all 90% of the players were noobs, no one knew what they were doing. new players were facing new players. Everyone was on equal ground pretty much. Unless there's a pretty big constant flow of new players that wont be the case in the full game. After a few weeks there will be good players everywhere.
Also we're not sure how fast the progression will be in the full game. It's very possible that it's sped up during the alpha.

That's just without the stats. How do you think new players will feel when they're not only getting they're asses kicked by someone who has played the game for 100 hours more than them, but then they also find out it's because he has gear that makes them do less damage to him and he of course does more to them. Do you think they will enjoy their experience? Do you think they will stay?

I think most new players will be able to accept that someone who has played longer than them is better. But when there's some major unfair advantage behind that success...I'm not sure sure they'll come around.

League of Legends is by far the most popular competitive game in the world with 100 million active players and that game is quite punishing to new players because you have to grind out IP for runes and level up for masteries as well as grind out IP for all of the 130 champions on the roster, or pay for them. That's on top of the fact that it has an almost certain far steeper learning curve than For Honor will have. That's not dissing For Honor either, that's just the nature of the MOBA genre. Call of Duty Modern Warfare had really good weapons that were gated behind a progression system so people who played more had inherent advantages over new players, both games are and were very popular.

You say "in the alpha" is the key phrase but there's no indication that the rate of gear progression in alpha is any faster than it will be on release. My point was that after a few days people had really good gear. The time it takes to get good gear is not very long, at least from what I've seen. I get that a lot of people dislike the gearing system, but I personally like a progression system, it's fun for me. Maybe new players will be turned away by that, but as I listed with two games that are massively popular that also have a progression system do fine.

[Muppetlords]

League of Legends is by far the most popular competitive game in the world with 100 million active players and that game is quite punishing to new players because you have to grind out IP for runes and level up for masteries as well as grind out IP for all of the 130 champions on the roster, or pay for them. That's on top of the fact that it has an almost certain far steeper learning curve than For Honor will have. That's not dissing For Honor either, that's just the nature of the MOBA genre. Call of Duty Modern Warfare had really good weapons that were gated behind a progression system so people who played more had inherent advantages over new players, both games are and were very popular.

You say "in the alpha" is the key phrase but there's no indication that the rate of gear progression in alpha is any faster than it will be on release. My point was that after a few days people had really good gear. The time it takes to get good gear is not very long, at least from what I've seen. I get that a lot of people dislike the gearing system, but I personally like a progression system, it's fun for me. Maybe new players will be turned away by that, but as I listed with two games that are massively popular that also have a progression system do fine.

I'll give you a hint as why League is so friendly to new players...You see, the game is free...Yeah shocker, I know. So literally anyone with a computer could try it.
And new players wont get wrecked by pros. Why? Well basically because there's always a steady flow of new players coming to the game, so what the game does is that it just matches newbies with other newbies. And it also has a pretty in depth system that calculate player skill to match that with other people on a similar level.
Oh and the level system it self is there of course. So when you're level 12 for example you wont face players that are 30 with full masteries and runepages.
This is one of the biggest if not the biggest pvp game in the world. And even this matchmaking system gets it wrong every now and then. Sometimes it will put you with or against players who the game thinks is about as good or bad as you, but no he's actually like licking his windows as the others play the game.

So if the worlds biggest pvp game has the occasional matchmaking problem, how do you think For Honor will fair?

But because this game does the matchmaking before you chose a character, there's only so much balance they can do with the matchmaking itself anyway.

[ArtieDayne]

I'll give you a hint as why League is so friendly to new players...You see, the game is free...Yeah shocker, I know. So literally anyone with a computer could try it.
And new players wont get wrecked by pros. Why? Well basically because there's always a steady flow of new players coming to the game, so what the game does is that it just matches newbies with other newbies. And it also has a pretty in depth system that calculate player skill to match that with other people on a similar level.
Oh and the level system it self is there of course. So when you're level 12 for example you wont face players that are 30 with full masteries and runepages.
This is one of the biggest if not the biggest pvp game in the world. And even this matchmaking system gets it wrong every now and then. Sometimes it will put you with or against players who the game thinks is about as good or bad as you, but no he's actually like licking his windows as the others play the game.

So if the worlds biggest pvp game has the occasional matchmaking problem, how do you think For Honor will fair?

But because this game does the matchmaking before you chose a character, there's only so much balance they can do with the matchmaking itself anyway.

There are a lot of free games that people can play that aren't remotely as popular as League of Legends. Dota 2 is free to play, there are no runes and masteries, and all heroes are immediately available yet it's not nearly as popular. Come on dude, there are so many free to play games out there and don't compete with League in popularity. The point I was making in the first place was that there are mismatches in that game and people still play it.

Yes, low level players generally get matched up against each other but when you start out ranked you're still dealing with situations where one new player may have access to champions that are more powerful in the current meta or a direct counter to the champions that a different new player has. You can also have situations where a player has more money, can buy more champions and as a result have a bigger champion pool and better rune pages because they don't have to spend any IP on champions. Yet here we are, it's the most popular game in the world by far.

League generally does a good job with matchmaking. It can't really help the fact when people have latency issues, are afk, have boosted accounts. We'll see what this game plans in terms of ranked modes where gear disparity would matter a lot more.

The time it takes to acquire good gear is very relevant though, and at least from alpha testing it doesn't appear to be a very long process. If a person is going to give up on For Honor because they can't be bothered to spend a couple days gearing up then they'll probably give up because of the steep learning curve anyway, because that will take longer to deal with.

[Muppetlords]

There are a lot of free games that people can play that aren't remotely as popular as League of Legends. Dota 2 is free to play, there are no runes and masteries, and all heroes are immediately available yet it's not nearly as popular. Come on dude, there are so many free to play games out there and don't compete with League in popularity. The point I was making in the first place was that there are mismatches in that game and people still play it.

Yes, low level players generally get matched up against each other but when you start out ranked you're still dealing with situations where one new player may have access to champions that are more powerful in the current meta or a direct counter to the champions that a different new player has. You can also have situations where a player has more money, can buy more champions and as a result have a bigger champion pool and better rune pages because they don't have to spend any IP on champions. Yet here we are, it's the most popular game in the world by far.

League generally does a good job with matchmaking. It can't really help the fact when people have latency issues, are afk, have boosted accounts. We'll see what this game plans in terms of ranked modes where gear disparity would matter a lot more.

The time it takes to acquire good gear is very relevant though, and at least from alpha testing it doesn't appear to be a very long process. If a person is going to give up on For Honor because they can't be bothered to spend a couple days gearing up then they'll probably give up because of the steep learning curve anyway, because that will take longer to deal with.

Dota 2 might not be nearly as popular as league, but it's still has a huge player base. What I said about League generally hold true for Dota as well. My point wasn't to say that league is popular due to it being f2p but it's a huge reason why it gets so many players. It's about as accessible as it gets.

When you play Ranked the first five (or is it ten now?) matches are to assess your skill and place you in a league where you can fight players of a similar skill. But yes, in those 5 or whatever matches you can end up with anyone. Also, matchmaking for ranked is generally harder than normal matches.

"If a person is going to give up on For Honor because they can't be bothered to spend a couple days gearing up then they'll probably give up because of the steep learning curve anyway"

I don't believe that to be true at all. As long as you face players of a smilar skill level with no additional advantages you shouldn't feel like the games learning curve is a problem since you will barely notice it's there. You will instead learn at your own pace instead of the game forcing it on you by putting you up against better players.

Now the matchmaking isn't perfect at all.Not even close. And sometimes when I first played the technical test I felt I had to go through a few rounds vs the AI just to practice certain things that I couldn't play without knowing, such as countering guard breaks and such.

But because we all were quite new in the technical test and the alpha the skill gap between players wasn't that big most of the time so I found it to be fine. You could quite happily go on fighting the way you always had without it being all too punishing. Do you think that'll be the case once people start melting you with their lvl 15 AD blades?

[Zwerqi]

Sooner or later everyone will have those gear. it rly doesnt take long to get this stuff. i was able to do so in technical test and alpha. I just think that without the gear, there is nothing to play for. ok the game is fun but i'm always excited when the game finished and im waiting for good loot. also you should be rewarded for your time! and IF you have skill, you are able to kill a fullgeared blue guys with lvl 1.