NO to stats on gear! | Forums

[FHL Team sbt]

"Perhaps a trade off would be better. No stat could be boosted without proportionally penalizing another. Gives some extra degree of mechanical customization without providing straight advantages"

"Upgrading an stat should mean that you downgrade another the same amount, it should allow for the player to adapt the character to his style. Right now there are stats that are simply the only choice to upgrade, Attack and Defense for example are obviously the best choice for their respective weapon/armor parts"

Once again looks like no one here actually watched there stream where they showed how stats work and how there is a trade off. do you guys even research into your ideas before you post them?
the stat system on the stream is well presented and they showed how skill will always dominate over stats. Jesus guys. its really simple to see how stats effect gear. if a player has progressed in the game much further than you by putting in more time and effort than you they should be rewarded with small stat bonuses, better gear and a general reason to progress . and they CLEARLY explained how someone with higher skill will always come out on top even vrs higher level players

i hate hellokitty posters who just want this perfect world where everyone is equal even if somone has put in so much more hours and effort than you but no! they should just be the same as me at level 1!

[Eidard]

"Perhaps a trade off would be better. No stat could be boosted without proportionally penalizing another. Gives some extra degree of mechanical customization without providing straight advantages"

"Upgrading an stat should mean that you downgrade another the same amount, it should allow for the player to adapt the character to his style. Right now there are stats that are simply the only choice to upgrade, Attack and Defense for example are obviously the best choice for their respective weapon/armor parts"

Once again looks like no one here actually watched there stream where they showed how stats work and how there is a trade off. do you guys even research into your ideas before you post them?
the stat system on the stream is well presented and they showed how skill will always dominate over stats. Jesus guys. its really simple to see how stats effect gear. if a player has progressed in the game much further than you by putting in more time and effort than you they should be rewarded with small stat bonuses, better gear and a general reason to progress . and they CLEARLY explained how someone with higher skill will always come out on top even vrs higher level players

i hate hellokitty posters who just want this perfect world where everyone is equal even if somone has put in so much more hours and effort than you but no! they should just be the same as me at level 1!

We saw the stream, and we have played the game, the stats bonuses are not small, and if they intend to make a competitive game there shouldn't be progression(specialization maybe, but not stat progression), if you played more you already have more experience over the other player, no need to make the gap even bigger with high difference on stats.

You can believe what they say and think that skill always prevail, but when you are playing comptitively that is not how it works, 2 persons with similar skill but one with better stats will win over the guy with the less stats.

It is not about a perfect world, it is about a fair competitive game. If I want to feel more powerful than another guy I just need to play an MMORPG where the progression and hours matter, but when we are talking about a competitive videogame, fairness between players is extremely important, and if a player who started later but is extremely good faces a guy which is at the same level of skill but has better gear, the guy with the better gear will win most of the times. Competitive videogames are not about progression within the game but progression within the person's abilities, every match should be as fair as possible.

You don't want a football match where one team has an extremely good equipment and the other is playing barefoot and with long heavy trousers, you want it to be as fair as possible and only the skill and strategy from the players be the thing that makes them win.

Not only that, but every class has its own equipment, so if I am extemely good, playing high competitive matches vs extremely good people, and I want to pick another class which it is an easy transition to me, I will have a problem, I will be playing against extemely good people, where skill is so close between everyone that stats matter a lot, so I will basicly be limited to the classes that I have items for because I would just put myself into a disadvantage if I dont and I can't just "git good", because in this hypotehical I would already be as good as someone can be.

[Ymir.exe]

The stat changes are so minor it doesn't really matter. It's going to come down to skill anyway. And I for one like the idea that if I'm really bothered by the kensei running slowly, I can try to stack my stats to compensate for that and get him moving a bit. And for someone who doesn't care about being slow, they can focus on defense or something instead.

It lets you tailor the hero to suit your playstyle at least slightly.

[Kastro92]

This stat-gear system is fine to me, if they keep that just to normals
Like this a player who wants to grind equipment can still do it without affecting the true side of this game, competition.
I ,personally, really don't care about normals when the game will come out, I will play them as training like other people do on other games.
Ranking system SHOULD NOT be affected by gear equipped in terms of stats, but can easily keep visuals of equipped gear.
For exmple, if they'll do this as I said, I will save a loadout for normals (high stats) and a loadout for ranked (pure visual badass).

[Muppetlords]

Another problem I can see having with this system is the high tier matchmaking.
There will obviously be fewer people that has the very high tier gear. After a while I'm afraid it could become like...War thunder jets for example.
In some cases you can sit in a queue for 30 minutes trying to find a game.

"The stat changes are so minor"

Are they really? From what I've seen that's not the case at all. Hell, even my level 6 attack damage blade in the alpha required one less light attack to finish an enemy. That's not so very little. So I disagree when you say "I'll come down to skill anyway.". In most cases it might, but it shouldn't be most cases it should be in all cases.

I really don't understand why every game today has to have stats and stuff...I can understand visual customization, that's almost objectively fun...and doesn't change the gameplay.
However image if you could acquire a skin for Heroes of the storm, for example, that actually boosted your stats...That would be bad for any pvp game imo.

"It lets you tailor the hero to suit your playstyle at least slightly."

That's what the different characters should do and on their own. And they already do that pretty good I think.
If I want to play defensive, I'll play the Conqueror, if I want to play offensive I'll play the Berserker. etc. Not that the characters are that limited to begin with. You can pretty much play offensive or defensive with anyone. Just that some are stronger in some areas than others.

There are tons of really good pvp games out there that does only visual gear changes. I'll name a few.

Halo 3 for example. Had a great multiplayer, every gear piece was just cosmetic but that didn't change the fact that you would drown in 12 year olds when you had a rare armor.

League of Legends. Sure you can buy stat changing items in game but that's all dependent on how skillfully you play. Outside of that the skins are just cosmetic again.

Heroes of the Storm. Same here except you can't buy items in game. Just pure skill.

Overwatch. Cosmetic skins and nothing more.

Counter strike global offensive. Overpriced weapon skins that doesn't change anything except the looks.

Dota 2. Same as League.

Needless to say, these are some of the biggest and most successful pvp games out there. (Except Halo 3 which just came to mind...still had a really good mp tho)
I wonder why? Could it be that it's because they're all basically 100% skillbased? I think so.

The only pvp game that comes to mind that has a lot of gear with stats and that is somewhat big, is World of Warcraft. And while there is certainly a skill factor in there a lot depends on your gear. And I don't think that's the kind of game we want.

[Muppetlords]

easy fix... "Hardcore mode"

gear stats don't apply and no revives. boom, done.

Indeed. Just have to make sure they do it.

[ARone210]

I think for player vs player it should be skill based. I think this game has a lot of potential to be a esport. The gear enhancing the stats just seems like it would affect major league competition.

I believe this game has a campaign and stat boosting would be great for that and cooperative modes. Like a survival mode or high level player vs ai modes where the ai might out number the players.

Also it makes balancing the classes and stats harder because there are more avenues in which balancing issues can arise.

[SliceOBread]

Another problem I can see having with this system is the high tier matchmaking.
There will obviously be fewer people that has the very high tier gear. After a while I'm afraid it could become like...War thunder jets for example.
In some cases you can sit in a queue for 30 minutes trying to find a game.

"The stat changes are so minor"

Are they really? From what I've seen that's not the case at all. Hell, even my level 6 attack damage blade in the alpha required one less light attack to finish an enemy. That's not so very little. So I disagree when you say "I'll come down to skill anyway.". In most cases it might, but it shouldn't be most cases it should be in all cases.

I really don't understand why every game today has to have stats and stuff...I can understand visual customization, that's almost objectively fun...and doesn't change the gameplay.
However image if you could acquire a skin for Heroes of the storm, for example, that actually boosted your stats...That would be bad for any pvp game imo.

"It lets you tailor the hero to suit your playstyle at least slightly."

That's what the different characters should do and on their own. And they already do that pretty good I think.
If I want to play defensive, I'll play the Conqueror, if I want to play offensive I'll play the Berserker. etc. Not that the characters are that limited to begin with. You can pretty much play offensive or defensive with anyone. Just that some are stronger in some areas than others.

There are tons of really good pvp games out there that does only visual gear changes. I'll name a few.

Halo 3 for example. Had a great multiplayer, every gear piece was just cosmetic but that didn't change the fact that you would drown in 12 year olds when you had a rare armor.

League of Legends. Sure you can buy stat changing items in game but that's all dependent on how skillfully you play. Outside of that the skins are just cosmetic again.

Heroes of the Storm. Same here except you can't buy items in game. Just pure skill.

Overwatch. Cosmetic skins and nothing more.

Counter strike global offensive. Overpriced weapon skins that doesn't change anything except the looks.

Dota 2. Same as League.

Needless to say, these are some of the biggest and most successful pvp games out there. (Except Halo 3 which just came to mind...still had a really good mp tho)
I wonder why? Could it be that it's because they're all basically 100% skillbased? I think so.

The only pvp game that comes to mind that has a lot of gear with stats and that is somewhat big, is World of Warcraft. And while there is certainly a skill factor in there a lot depends on your gear. And I don't think that's the kind of game we want.

You'v said that if you want defense you pick conqueror, and offensive berserker. But let's say you like the conqueror most but you would like him to have a bit more atk speed while lowering defense a bit just to suit you is that bad ?

In league of legends you prepare runes in books for example (which are like weapon stats here).

Heroes of the storm allows you to pick what you like with your character (there are multiple ways to change him) so it's like your manipulation of character stats through weapon loadouts.

Halo 3 is good example for your case but there are games like destiny, firefall, warframe, division, world of tanks (it's still a shooter) which have stats and are great games with lot's of players.

Overwatch and cs i do agree.

I don't think that dota 2 (league of legends too in this aspect) isn't good example since without picking items your most likely dead meat. You gotta pick items that you like to pick with the hero for given situation. Only starting from that you can say it's skill based. If not please try picking any character and go with totally no items and win. I guarantee that unless enemies are dumb as **** ur gonna lose. That means that after picking ur character you'r changing his stats. And hey i know that skin doesn't change stats but you can stay with default skin in for honor with ur armor by changing it's outlook for 300 gold if i remember correctly.

There's ton of games which have stats and are still skill based like lol, c9, bns, black desert, guild wars 1 and 2, tera, raiderz, neverwinter online, vindictus, firefall. And it's just top of the iceberg. And there's a ton more of these which you most likely don't even know of Like ragnarok online etc.

In my opinion it's good it allows you to pick ur stats to aid your playstyle (which is tested and aproved for example by league of legends), if they leave out stats and make game without them i feel fights will be fine as well, but it would for example start looking like cs:go which didn't change since start. There's some playerbase but in my opinion it's boring when all you can do is use forever the same unchanging weapon, sometimes you would want to try some other kind like more dmg, less range etc. In cs:go you can pick any of available weapons (and there's quite a few of them) with your beloved character.

So in my opinion stats are fine unless they overdo it and make the blade like x3 dmg or 2x atk speed etc. I like the way it adjusts them a bit more to your playstyle. This way each fight with each conqueror can be different since one will be able to recover from stun faster one will be a bit faster and other stuff like that.

[carronor]

I never felt the it made that big of a difference since at any moment you could be 3v1 and just get REKT

[Yggdrasil_67]

Have some sort of ranked matchmaking with neutralized sats.

Problem solved IMO.