Warden and Orchid balancing.. why? | Forums

[x_KingSolomon_x]

Why all the fuss?

WARDEN
Is the light attack with a GB combo annoying.. yup. Is the light attack and charge combo annoying? Yes. ARE they avoidable? Most certainly. Blockable? Yes. Dodgable? Yes.

So what gives? Is it just babies being babies? I don't understand.

Let's make this very clear. I have played the warden. Level 10. And the orochi level 13. Berzerker level 17. Kensei level 1. Conquerer level 8. And raider renown 1, level 12.

I know the combos. I know the spams. But just like every other fighting game. They are only annoying. Not dominating. They can be easily beaten. It's a matter of choice. Timing and focus. Honestly. These players kill me from time to time. And usually it's only in that first and sometimes second encounter. Once you know what they are doing you just adapt. And conquer. Simple enough? Apparently not for the majority.

OROCHI
everyone hates on this character. I don't know why. None of the attacks are heavy hitters. And the only true unblockable that it does have.. Is the counter backstab. It's annoying. But man. It takes a timed block with a R1 to execute. And if you want any real damage then it's a hold and leave yourself open. It's not like it requires no work or effort. And the ones that are dedicated to JUST the back stab. They spend all their time blocking. GB fools.

I have had no issues with characters. Or play styles. It really feels like pouting. Fix the 2 maps where the only thing separating 2 capture zones is a ladder or 5 steps. Not people expecting to nurf what others cannot seem to tolerate.

[Delscen]

not sure if srs or just bad... but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Nothing is wrong with the warden. anyone complaining about him clearly didn't play him for any significant amount of time.

Orochi on the other hand... if you deny that the backstep slash is the most instant win move in the game you're delusional. i don't care if YOU personaly didn't spam that and the counter exclusively... but the majority of Orochi users during the alpha realized very early that the backstep slash is not only safe, but leads into pressure on block or hit, allowing Orochi to control the flow of the battle.

MOST orochi players would NEVER ENGAGE themselves. instead they simply waited for the counter, or backstep slashed against unblockables. IF you don't think the orochi is broken, then you weren't playing him "right" (right according to the law of playing to win). what makes him broken is that he is at once the safest defensive character in the game -and that's counting conqueror since he can easily be Guadbroken since every non-knight character has a dash into GB- while also having the highest speed and and unblockable that can't be dodged. no other character has as many pros with so few cons.

EDIT: hell, the one time i baited an orochi (over and over again) into whiffing his backstep slash so i could capitalize, he sent me hatemail after i won saying i was bad for baiting him. i played a different character each fight... he kept picking orochi because i guess some people can't do anything competitive without a crutch. i think his screen name was actually bK badkid or something. he even went so far as to say Orochi is the hardest class. yeah... the forums have proven him wrong/braindead

2nd edit: never mind, his screen name was EW0K ASSASSIN. SO, if you happen to play this guy, know now that he will simply do the same thing over and over again, and when you've each won one match, he'll somehow think he's the "winner" regardless of the fact that he plays a braindead character.

As an Orochi player, I apologize on his unprofessional antics. Not all Orochi players are like that, but many are and it gives us a bad name. It's funny cause I get the same hate message from a player saying I had no skill for killing him when in reality I varied every moveset of Orochi and switched classes. I'm the kind of Orochi that charge in and attack; deflecting and counter is ok but boring for me, too spammy and no fun. Everyone has their strengths and weakness.

[Delscen]

unfortunately the majority of Orochi players were carbon copies.

of the three that didn't just spam the backstep and slash when i was in range, one was very obviously trying to learn his parry/counter, and the other two must have been fresh off playing as the raider or warden because they were very straightforward.

if they left every move exactly as they are now, the only way to balance him would be to make the back and sidestep attacks a one hit thing, after which he has to recover. no more IMMEDIATE combo pressure after an already easy to land move. backstep a heavy and slash on whiff... easy.

if they were to change anything, i'd say make the unblockable a touch slower so it can be sidestepped or rolled like every other unblockable in the game, and second, reduce the backstep slash attack range by about half, so it's an actual counter and not an equally offensive maneuver.

Thank you, really appreciate constructive criticism like this. Too many players complain and point out the flaws, citing to remove it, rather than providing suggestions to make it balanced better. Devs are reading these threads, and if too many complain without providing alternatives devs won't really know how much to tone down the Orochi and may unintentionally nerf him to the ground.

[Derity]

I don't know if you ever played Orochi or Berserker during the Alpha, but the "timed block" as you speak of you don't need to time it on light attacks. Light attacks are so fast that as long as you block them 99% of the time it is considered a deflect.

It doesn't require much effort at all to be perfectly honest, you just block and most of the time you get a deflect. Once you get use to the fact that you can't hold block and you have to press block everytime you see red, it is not hard, trust me. (I played Berseker to Renown 2)The only time you need to time it is when it's a hard attack and to be honest those are slow so they are relatively easy to time anyway.

The problem with the Orochi is the fact that simply blocking light attacks results in an unblockable counter that strings into counters. The Warden is not OP at all. But the Orochi in it's current state (IMO) is the best character in the game, by far.