Last day, uninstalled. Nerf Samurai | Forums

[Delscen]

Alright I just have to say it. For all those that complain a particular class is too powerful and will stop playing or buying the game, GOOD. I don't want to play against casual players or whiny b****es. Every class has a weakness. I agree Orochi needs some minor tweaks but they're not groundbreaking. Enjoy the game or get out.


In the meantime, I'll get my popcorn ready for more drama queen replies and threads. Give me something new or positive about the game!

[Delscen]

Del... this is kinda where people come to complain too. the forums aren't just for people who love the game. get over yourself.

These particular threads are for an alpha game that needs what worked well and useful criticism if there's a problem. If players are gonna complain, give devs suggestions that they could follow up rather than work with empty anger and ultimately nerf a class to the ground. I rarely get invested in multiplayer games so I'm doing what I can to have dev notice constructive criticisms. Players like this one can vent all they want, can't stop them, but expect people like me to respond in kind.

[TFA-Vagrant]

What I love about this game, and what has made it enjoyable for me, is to really become a master at one thing, one must have an understanding of all things. I watched both the basic and advanced video tutorials for all classes, got a basic understanding of how each class worked, and practiced with them long enough to know what their special traits are. I can see that this is ultimately what is going to make or break people in this game. No matter what class I played, if I knew how the other opponent was supposed to fight their character, it vastly changed how I fighted them. As a result, the Orochi, the Kensei, and any other class I played against for this matter, gave me little trouble at all in the end.

Against the Orochi specifically, guard breaks are a blessing, and as I played Warden often, I used my upper attack counter, and went with a 1 hit strike, instead of going full combo, preventing them from getting the opportunity to parry and counter, instead of the second hit in the combo, I would do a guard break to finish the combo, almost always scoring another free hit upon an orochi - rinse - repeat - most the time, I could get a kill on an orochi without them ever hitting me once. Also, the Orochi have such a small reach compared to the other classes, even as a Warden, I could dodge their attacks easily, and Wardens have **** maneuvrability. (As they should in heavy armor)

[ShuyinVardiz]

Its hella annoying but it seems people either dont get or dont care for what I am trying to say.

How do you deal with an oroshi which cant be guardbreaked (not too hard to prevent guardbreaks entirely) that focuses on counterattacks?
I can stop attacking and bunker myself into 100% defense but I wont get him killed that way too, just prevent my own death at best.
The raider holds no ability to deal with this strategy.

[Charity Diary]

Its hella annoying but it seems people either dont get or dont care for what I am trying to say.

How do you deal with an oroshi which cant be guardbreaked (not too hard to prevent guardbreaks entirely) that focuses on counterattacks?
I can stop attacking and bunker myself into 100% defense but I wont get him killed that way too, just prevent my own death at best.
The raider holds no ability to deal with this strategy.

1) Feint attacks
2) Guard break anyway. The guard break counters are so hard to pull off, no one's going to counter all of them...

[ShuyinVardiz]

1) Feint attacks
2) Guard break anyway. The guard break counters are so hard to pull off, no one's going to counter all of them...

1. The Raider can only feint one thing: a heavy attack into a top strike. It can ONLY be a topstrike, in any situation at any time and it requires an initiated heavy attack, forcing you to take a moment until the entire feint finishes and hits. I fought enough raiders to know their feints are really obvious and hella easy to be prepared against, even if executed at totally random times or patterns.
/edit: You can theoretically time your feint to either change into the top attack instantly, reducing the time your enemy has to react, or stretch it out and turn into the top strike as late as possible to reduce the chance the enemy will get your feint. But as said, I fought qute some raiders, the time will always take at least the initiated heavy attack (if kept short or stretched a lil' longer however) + slightly less then a usuall light strike takes. Its easy to prevent as long as you know its always forced to come from top. And "feinting to feint" by feinting too often and then suddenly keep it as a basic heavy attack wont work as you dont block top since you expect a feint, but block the heavy attack until you see the top feint. It is ENOUGH time to react.
I dont say this needs to be changed, it is totally perfect as it is right now, I just want to point out this is at no point a valid strategy against top score oroshis.

2. They can. Many people can. Its really easy if you focus on nearly or even entirely defending only.
/edit: especially since the raider has no combo or skill in his moveset that lines up with guardbreaks. They always come seperated.


And keep in mind that a single missed attack will lower your health by about 30% as you will suffer a dash followed up by two light attacks of which none can be prevented. You missed and have to take the damage now.
If you are lucky you hit and "just" got parried, the damage you have to take from that is at best 15% of your max health.

[Delscen]

1. The Raider can only feint one thing: a heavy attack into a top strike. It can ONLY be a topstrike, in any situation at any time and it requires an initiated heavy attack, forcing you to take a moment until the entire feint finishes and hits. I fought enough raiders to know their feints are really obvious and hella easy to be prepared against, even if executed at totally random times or patterns.
/edit: You can theoretically time your feint to either change into the top attack instantly, reducing the time your enemy has to react, or stretch it out and turn into the top strike as late as possible to reduce the chance the enemy will get your feint. But as said, I fought qute some raiders, the time will always take at least the initiated heavy attack (if kept short or stretched a lil' longer however) + slightly less then a usuall light strike takes. Its easy to prevent as long as you know its always forced to come from top. And "feinting to feint" by feinting too often and then suddenly keep it as a basic heavy attack wont work as you dont block top since you expect a feint, but block the heavy attack until you see the top feint. It is ENOUGH time to react.
I dont say this needs to be changed, it is totally perfect as it is right now, I just want to point out this is at no point a valid strategy against top score oroshis.

2. They can. Many people can. Its really easy if you focus on nearly or even entirely defending only.
/edit: especially since the raider has no combo or skill in his moveset that lines up with guardbreaks. They always come seperated.

Then be aggressive at times. Once you know the Orochi pattern, you can taunt them by dashing in close but not doing much unless they're begging for a GB. Most Orochi fear one thing and it's close distance so they'll try to attack or dodge in which case you can anticipate and react accordingly. Even against "pro" orochis I had partially played as a Viking and Raiders are destructive beasts. Orochi hates the unblockable hit so use that often. And I can't tell you how powerful Raider's grabs are.
So mix it up, be defensive but know when to bait to attack and counter. I'm sure when the beta comes out you'll get the hang of it and Orochi would probably get toned down a bit. Just my 2 cent

[Delscen]

Also Orochis are huge squishys. One hit from a light Raider hit can take off 1/4 of their health. Unblockable is enough to put them in a dying state.

Oh and another tip: corner or wall them. No place for them to dodge or escape, they're toast.

[ShuyinVardiz]

Then be aggressive at times. Once you know the Orochi pattern, you can taunt them by dashing in close but not doing much unless they're begging for a GB. Most Orochi fear one thing and it's close distance so they'll try to attack or dodge in which case you can anticipate and react accordingly. Even against "pro" orochis I had partially played as a Viking and Raiders are destructive beasts. Orochi hates the unblockable hit so use that often. And I can't tell you how powerful Raider's grabs are.
So mix it up, be defensive but know when to bait to attack and counter. I'm sure when the beta comes out you'll get the hang of it and Orochi would probably get toned down a bit. Just my 2 cent

As I repeated already, you have to assume a total 100% guard break immunity. I guarantee you it happens often. Even conquerors show less focus on guardbreaks, but some oroshis know these are somewhat the only opening you can get from them.
Regarding the pattern: which pattern? Moving and dodging around until you finally "let" him parry you or miss him to take the dash? There is no pattern in waiting to counter your attack. Getting too aggressive ends up with taking heavy damage as all they do is react to your attacks. They can AND WILL parry your unblockable strike - if they are stupid. You will have to take one or two light attacks or one heavy strike. If they arent stupid, they will DODGE it (it works backup into a corner as long as you dodge right before it'd hit, its like the dark souls dodge giving a very short immortality) and react with the dash and two light attacks. The unblockable is one of the worst things to try in this situation, as it shows three openings to exploit.


I dont say the oroshi is too strong generally, or too fast or whatever.
All I say is that the Oroshi is the only class that, played by top tier players, can take every attack you execute and turn it into pure death for you. If you want you can bunker down into 100% defense too, but why? You want to kill him. Watching each other and starting to play cards or something wont do any good for anyone.
The only "opening" I can recall is if they want to execute a PLANNED dash (not one resulting from you having missed), if you can assume the time correctly you can hit him before the dash hits you but he can cancel mid dash and if you fail you take the full 30% damage.

PS:
Why dodging? They can block every heavy attack, parry every light attack, parry your unblockable and counter your guardbreak.
/edit:
I tried hitting them with light attacks at the most redicioulos patterns. It works for many, but bunkered up oroshis only care for preventing to be guard breaked and parrying, so that showed to turn out a bigger danger then profit too.

/edit:
PPS:
Theoretically I'd focus more on the knight classes as they can bunker down this way against the raider too, since the only opening after dodging their shoulder bash is too short and they are capable of blocking again before you can react with a light attack, but even the best knight players I fought werent able to do this all the time and ended up killing themself at least that or another way.

[Telekill]

Samurai doesn't need a nerf. I was able to kill them just fine.