The Orochi is NOT OP. | Forums

[ARone210]

I primarily played the Warden since the alpha was to short to fully get to know all the classes I thought it better to try and get to know one and offer my feed back based on my experience with that specific class. I still don't know how to preform all the moves that the Warden has and I really hope they add a more in depth tutorial that can really teach you how to play each class. For an Alpha I didn't think the balance was half bad but as people began to master classes it started to become apparent that some classes did have some advantages. in terms of the Orochi I think the class is slightly over powered once you get the hang of it. I don't believe it needs to be nerfed into the ground but maybe some of the combos and skills should be looked at.

Even though they were challenging to fight and I felt at a major disadvantage against them as a warden I encountered a player that took the Orochi to a whole different level. He or she had completely mastered the class and was pretty much untouchable on the battle field. I endured the brutal deaths I received from him for over 4 matches trying to find a weakness or a counter. I couldn't. He generally finished the games with out dying and with 20+ take downs. The thing was he attacked the same way every time and took advantage of one of the things I felt was the wardens biggest weaknesses. He used some sort of quick strike attack that I could never figure out how to block, dodge or evade. No matter what I tried this blow always landed. the kicker was it staggered me every time. I found the warden staggered a lot when hit in general but at the start of this combo it was certain death. After this strike I never regained control of my character. He would strike me three more times with heavy attacks and kill me with out me even getting to resist. He did it every time and to everyone who tried to attack him. All I could think was man once everyone figures out that combo who ever gets the first strike wins. There was no way out of it alive. I saw every class destroyed by it.

Since its an Alpha I am going to assume he wasn't cheating and playing legit. I don't know if he was skilled or not as the Orochi was the only class I saw him play and he used the same tactics every time. As the warden he moved to quick and fast for me to land any blows and once I was struck I never got a second chance. Though I am not the most amazing player or an expert it did seem a little OP to me. Not 100% sure how to adjust it because I think the Orochi and classes like it are on a thin line. Its really easy to make them to OP and then make them to weak never finding that sweet spot.

[ThatSnekyRusky]

This is quite hilarious... Orochi is not imba? Not OP? Not too Beefy you say?

You guys obviously never faced the good players. Sorry that is as gently as I can possibly put it.. You are quite inexperienced players and that much is blatantly true. Otherwise you would know for a fact the Orochi is WAY too strong rite now. Warden's Moveset is seriously lacking. "Also has no gap closer" Beserker Although not as commonly used as Orochi this class is just as OP.


As far as balance goes, I'd say For Honor has ALLOT of work ahead of them, also you noobs are forgetting that there are 8 OTHER CLASSES. Stop thinking like a bunch of simple minded kids, take a step back, and look at the bigger picture... Orochi will dominate ALL other classes, Beserker will dominate ALL other classes including Orochi. Im not going to bother educating you all on every little thing we've learned. But you should be open minded enough to realize that if 2 players of equal skill face off, it wont be a roll of the dice, it will be a battle of different classes, and if 1 is beserker or orochi and the other is ANY other class, they will surely lose and will lose quite quickly.

Orochi can parry/block --->> in to a Quick overhead Heavy, Also has 2 unavoidable attacks 1 of them being an instant counter that does insane amounts of damage once they have a maxed atk dmg blade.

Beserker Can insta guard break off of ANY and EVERY single blocked attack or parry. For anyone that knows how this games mechanics work this alone makes Beserker the most powerful class in the game including the classes we havent even tried or seen yet assuming they cannot do this exact same thing.

Orochi is a piece of sht and so is Beserker - both are str8 cheeze and any of you who used these classes and thought you were good, make me laugh.

Well said my friend. With 16hours on my Warden the Zerk and Orochi were, in fact, the only two classes that I simply could not fight without spamming guard-break or dodge and even then I normally lost. Normal, skill-based, moves and counters would have zero effect on Orochi when they can simply side-spin slash and spam their guard-break -> Up Attack -> Guard Break -> Up Attack.

I also noticed they can change their direction of attack MUCH MUCH faster than I could even with sensitivity maxed. The game physically would not let me change directions as fast as an Orochi or Zerk can. It's frustrating when they're supposed to be a "Counter-Attack" based class but have THE best initiation and aggressive attack available to any class.

Some people were saying Zerk is underpowered, but I say it takes quite a LOT of skill to learn how to learn their exploitable nonsense to become true battelfield cancer.

I believe, however, that Zerk just needs their kit modified to be more fun, and nerf their exploitable nonsense to make them viable for common play like the Orochi. I hope Orochi doesn't get "nerfed into the ground" but they need some MAJOR tweaks to how fast they can switch directions and absolutely stun-lock you with guardbreaks, etc.

[ServiusOrtus]

So to actually address the topic of this thread, I think that the issue with the Orochi lies specifically with the fact the Orochi class has far more versatility in its defense options than any other class currently playable. I think the damage, health, etc. of the Orochi is fine but people end up running into issues with the combination of the Orochi's attack speed, dash combos, dodge distance, and deflect mechanic.

Without re-iterating too much from my other post (you can read that here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...-Tweaks-Forums ), my brief analysis is as follows:

Deflect in and of itself isn't necessarily inherently OP, it simply is a bridge too far on the Orochi who already has a great defense focus in their dodge & dash combos.

The Orochi can be better balanced by simply removing the Deflect mechanic (the capacity for Orochi to time their Active Guards such that they can proc a free unblockable light or heavy attack), and keep the Orochi's Active Guard (the need for Orochi's to actively time their guard directions). This allows the class to focus on a much more active & assassin like playstyle of using dashes & dodges to smartly probe & bait opponents into mistakes.

Again though I think the Deflect mechanic has some really cool potential but should be a standalone defense tool on a different unique class that doesn't have as strong speed, dodge distance, or dash combos.

[General_Valor]

I agree with a lot of sentiment over Orochi's longlasting guardbreak stun and it's unavoidable counters. What's the point of playing a Conquerer if the Orochi can not only reliably deflect attacks but take a third or so of your health off with a single counter?

[ServiusOrtus]

I agree with a lot of sentiment over Orochi's longlasting guardbreak stun and it's unavoidable counters. What's the point of playing a Conquerer if the Orochi can not only reliably deflect attacks but take a third or so of your health off with a single counter?

I agree that the deflect is what pushes the Orochi over the edge of balance, but they should not be able to do 1/3rd of your health off of their deflect consistently. The only deflect attack that can hit basically every time is the light deflect attack but that on a basic vanilla orochi does very little damage. The heavy deflect does more but that can be interrupted by fast sides from a number of classes and can actually consistently be dealt with if you're on point with watching for it. Otherwise if their light deflect is chunking you that hard it has to be because they're stacking a crazy high attack damage blade, which is a whole other issue.


I should note that, you can only consistently interrupt the heavy deflect if they deflected a light from you. If they deflected a heavy off of you then you'll be staggered too much to interrupt, but you shouldn't be heavying orochi's anyway unless you can for sure land a hit or are feinting which will significantly lower the chance of them guarding much less deflecting.

[TheLight-Boogey]

I'm sure there are a lot of different opinions on this matter. Especially since Orochi was the most common Hero I came across in all game modes. Well done post OP, this is a good conversation to have.

My only comment on Orochi is that his Light attacks may just have a bit too much damage. His class is obviously based around his agility and quick attacks, but it doesn't seem he has enough damage drop off to compensate. The Berserker is of a similar mould, but I feel he is much more balanced in this respect.

[Muppetlords]

I'm sure there are a lot of different opinions on this matter. Especially since Orochi was the most common Hero I came across in all game modes. Well done post OP, this is a good conversation to have.

My only comment on Orochi is that his Light attacks may just have a bit too much damage. His class is obviously based around his agility and quick attacks, but it doesn't seem he has enough damage drop off to compensate. The Berserker is of a similar mould, but I feel he is much more balanced in this respect.

Yeah. The light attacks could be toned down.
And I agree that the Berserker is just as "bad", so I find it kind of surprising that I see almost no complaints about that one.

At this point I don't care what they do with them though.
With the amount of hate the Orochi is getting I'd be very surprised if they haven't done anything by the next test, Beta or whatever it may be.

"You've never faced any good players" some say, which is a load of bull. 15+ hours and you're telling me I've not met any good players??
I'm not trying to brag (believe me...) but I believe I was quite a good player. When I totally kicked someones *** I tried to teach them and give them tips and such and they got better.
I had a huge win rate in duels, I think I lost a total of 4 or 5 during the entire Alpha, and I played probably more than 50 of them.
And most opponents were Orochis. Not good ones. But some were. But they didn't give me more trouble than any other like I've already said.
The one guy that really kicked my *** was a Berserker, but they're in the same boat as the Orochis.

And if that's really the case that I've never met a good Orochi player, then I'd honestly like to challenge one of and give them a run for their money.

Shame you couldn't invite friends and such to duels...hope they fix that until next time.

[ServiusOrtus]

I'm sure there are a lot of different opinions on this matter. Especially since Orochi was the most common Hero I came across in all game modes. Well done post OP, this is a good conversation to have.

My only comment on Orochi is that his Light attacks may just have a bit too much damage. His class is obviously based around his agility and quick attacks, but it doesn't seem he has enough damage drop off to compensate. The Berserker is of a similar mould, but I feel he is much more balanced in this respect.

I don't think the Orochi lights do too much at least not on the base character, upgraded blade attack changes things but that's a different issue. What were you playing as against the Orochi?

[Marvelous_Mac]

Love this post, very good information that many players need (or dont, shhhh lets keep it a secret and stomp noob playing Orochi ^^). The game got very good depth and art of battle is very Well-thought-out ^^. Devs are doing a very good job! Does anyone have a good ideas how you counter conquerers shield bash?

On another topic, I would really love too see better server management or just scrap this whole peer-to-peer idea. NAT is a very serious issue and might end up being game breaking for many. Also i would love for some serious E-sport in the future.

[Skosn]

This is quite hilarious... Orochi is not imba? Not OP? Not too Beefy you say?

You guys obviously never faced the good players. Sorry that is as gently as I can possibly put it.. You are quite inexperienced players and that much is blatantly true. Otherwise you would know for a fact the Orochi is WAY too strong rite now. Warden's Moveset is seriously lacking. "Also has no gap closer" Beserker Although not as commonly used as Orochi this class is just as OP.


As far as balance goes, I'd say For Honor has ALLOT of work ahead of them, also you noobs are forgetting that there are 8 OTHER CLASSES. Stop thinking like a bunch of simple minded kids, take a step back, and look at the bigger picture... Orochi will dominate ALL other classes, Beserker will dominate ALL other classes including Orochi. Im not going to bother educating you all on every little thing we've learned. But you should be open minded enough to realize that if 2 players of equal skill face off, it wont be a roll of the dice, it will be a battle of different classes, and if 1 is beserker or orochi and the other is ANY other class, they will surely lose and will lose quite quickly.

Orochi can parry/block --->> in to a Quick overhead Heavy, Also has 2 unavoidable attacks 1 of them being an instant counter that does insane amounts of damage once they have a maxed atk dmg blade.

Beserker Can insta guard break off of ANY and EVERY single blocked attack or parry. For anyone that knows how this games mechanics work this alone makes Beserker the most powerful class in the game including the classes we havent even tried or seen yet assuming they cannot do this exact same thing.

Orochi is a piece of sht and so is Beserker - both are str8 cheeze and any of you who used these classes and thought you were good, make me laugh.

You know that it's possible to block every attack of the Berserker? Including the light attack after a guard break or deflect.
Furthermore the Orochi is build around counter attacks. Don't start spaming long attack chains and use some of your other skills. The wardens quick double slash after a guard break or chained shoulder bash is extremly powerful against them, since they really don't have that much health.
The only true OP skill of the Orochi is it's unavoidable windblast, but maybe there is also a counter to that one and I just haven't figured it out yet.