Warden Feels Underwhelming | Forums

[Kovuh]

I agree. I mostly played the warden during the alpha and it lacks any punch that other characters get. The kensei has mad range and those attack direction switches with some unblockables, the Orochi has the deflects and counters, the raider has the throws and the unblockables, and the warden has what? The top counter and the shoulder bash, which isn't that much better than a regular guard break to be honest.

For a character presented as a good all-rounder it certainly feels like the least utilitarian out of all of them.

She also has some very Strong throws additional stun time when you throw an opponent against a wall a light attack combo on side attacks and an top Heavy attack that does more damage than normal hero power attacks a very good balance of offense and defenseand a very quick zone attack that you can throw in for a near guaranteed hit...

[Vordred]

i spent most of my time on the warden myself, because from a thematic point of view it was my favourite, but i did find it feel a bit generic, all the other vanguard classes, feel like they have a unique play style, but the wardens skill set doesn't feel that way.

[WinterHt]

Even though I didn't had chance to play the game, my analysis of available material on characters, and all the available footage led me to a similar conclusion with this thread. I reserve final judgement to when I actually get to try the game, but, as it is, this is a very big disappointment for me as Warden is the character I want to play most.

There really is no reason neither from a gameplay and certainly nor from histrocial reality point of view, to make Warden the way it seems now.

The issues I see are :
- Heavies look like pretty much unusable unless enemy is staggered by being pushed into a wall. Otherwise, they are unnecessarily, and unrealistically slow to execute, and apart from overhead heavy, does not seem to have good range either. Even Kensei's heavies seem faster which, if true, is outrageous as he uses a Nodachi, which is much larger, heavier, and generally less well balanced than an average longsword. If they were faster, top ones could be useful due to their decent range. Using Warden's heavies anywhere other than slamming the rival into a wall, is a big, easily punishable gambit from what I've seen.
- Almost all characters have at least 3 hit combos, Warden barely has two and only for their side light attacks. From Ochs (Warden's top guard in game), you can throw a Zwerchau, utilizing Longswords false edge (the edge facing into you), and you can very quickly follow up with another zwerchau to the otherside etc. This could have been incorporated in a light attack combo, start with top attack, and follow with two zwerchau's etc. That would also showcase longsword's versatility coming from having two edges. I would also add that they way Warden holds the Ochs posture, does not look quite right, even though game's animations are amazing in general.
- Lights don't seem to be fast enough. Only the over head one is
- Longswords, and European martial arts in general, favor trusting attacks quite a bit, but Kensei has a super fast trust poke, Warden does not.
- No real unblockable attacks, nor dizzies, where as everyone else seem to have one. How about a Mordhau? He does that in one his finishers, and also agianst minions (for some reason, as this is more of an anti heavy armour attack which minions lack). Shoulder charge is kinda nice, but it is interruptible, dodgable, and does not really deal damage either. Not saying this should have been an unbalanced super move, it is fine it is, but I wish Warden has other offensive tools too. Especially seeing as Raider has two unblockables, one as a combo finisher, and another as a very long reaching and suprisingly fast zone attack which can be triggered any time player pleases if I'm not mistaken. Kensei has one uninterruptible, unrealisticalyl quick light attacks, and an unblockable which can be combo finisher, or can be triggered much easier on an unbalanced opponent after a guardbreak/throw. Even Orochi seem to have an unblockable where they turn their back and stab, as if the class didn't have enough crazy tools.

I understand, from a game design perspective, characters wanted to be made somewhat differing from each other, but this could have been achieved without butchering a class and relegating it to old misconceptions of "heavily armoured lumbering guy with a giant unwieldy sword and without much technique". Seeing whole premise here was "iconic warriors pitted against each other", and a lot of research, and animation effort was done on these, I was kind of hoping this popular culture misconceptions would be somewhat balanced out.

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking this game to be a historical simulation of each character, I understand this is a competitive action packed, skill based game, which is perfectly fine. But then, what I don't understand is, why make one such iconic character unrealistically gimped, while others are not quite so.

I do hope I am wrong, but this really seems to be the case with Warden. I'm not saying it can't win, but it seems it is confined to a very specific gameplay, and not one that much adaptable, and even then one that can be countered easily. Again, I hope I am wrong.

Even in promotional videos etc, Warden seem to look moving clumsily, where as Japanese faction, and even Vikings to degree, do all the "cool stuff", and videos, as well as devs themselves, seem to repeat "Samurai are the more skilled" rhetoric. Even saying at times "Every hero has specialties, Orochi is very good at killing other heroes" which kinda flies in the face of point of heroes in whole game, killing other heroes.

From what I have seen, I've found design and "balancing" choices on Warden to be deeply disappointing, I look forward to be proven wrong when I actually get to play.

I was very interested in playing both Warden and Orochi and they did seem decently balanced, but now I think they both are a disappointment for people who were really into respective arts and weapons of these characters. Oh well, just a game I guess... hopefully I will like some of the other, more historically inspired heroes more and play them, or better yet, hope I turn out to be wrong with my impressions detailed here.

[C0rnolio]

You start to realize the style of the warden when you are able to parry all heavy attack incoming and 1/3 of the light ones. then you can follow with a guaranted guardbreak, followed by what you want acording the the surrounding : heavy side if nothing arround, double light side attack+charge, push on a wall, ledge, then heavy top attack.

This, plus the top light attack counter, add some feints, add a fast area attack, and your opponent has no more option to attack you safely.
reaction time is your only ennemy if you can master these.

[NephthysIV]

finally, a trick i didn't see ANY other wardens using... his area-attack (both attacks at once) is LIGHTNING fast and only comes from his right side, so you can aim left so your opponent is expecting left, and then pop off the area-attack which has NO VISUAL INDICATOR from the right. GRET for mindgames, but don't spam it because it takes a good third of your stam.

Every good player I fight against used the zone attack, because it is broken. Is really fast. You have to block the right side before you see it, ohterwise you won't block it. You know the attack will come and still have no time to block it. Best way to counter warden zone attack is to dodge back. You know most time when it will be comming. I had really strange Warden vs Warden matches, where the decisive factor who was winning was who was better at predicting the zone attack.
And you can punish heavy attacks with the zone attack because it's so fast with a good range. The pushback of the zone attack is really good. I won a 3vs1 in a dominion matches because two opponents get pushed by my zone attack into a trap .

Warden doesn't have the fency moves like a Raider or Kensai but every move of his kit is good. He has the best running attack and zone attack. His light attacks are really good. The Top Counter is one of the best moves in the game. His combos are short, but at a higher skill level your oppent will never let you chain 3 attacks anyway. I could mostly get only one hit gainst really good players, except after a guarddbreak/parry, or if you count the double light attack combo.
I would like a three light attack combo on him and a heavy, light, light combo. But It's probably to broken.

Warden is strong. In my opinion he is the strongest Vanguard.

[Roy_McDunno]

Yeah, he seems a bit underwhelming, but in fact, he isn't, I think.

Just when you compare the Warden to the Orochi or the Raider, he seems bland.
Even the DEVs said the Warden is designed as an easy to understand and basic hero, so he got that "basic-*****"-stigma from the top of the game-meta, by the DEVs themselves.

While the Orochi in fact **is** over-designed, I think, and while the Raider has a lot of fluff and is also strong, the Warden is a bit more basic, but nonetheless strong, too.

You "just" have to use his toolset, which, as you might guess, is also pretty basic.
But the "basicness" of the Warden also means he can engage in any fight, at "any" range, because his light attacks are fast enough, his heavy attacks deal hella dmg and his combos are basic, but powerful, if used right.

[Yggdrasil_67]

I have to agree that the Warden lacks a little something. Right now it's just:
Guard break > side dual light attack combo > shoulder bash > combo > shoulder bash > repeat ad nauseum

[Roy_McDunno]

... combo > shoulder bash > repeat ad nauseum

mhm

as OP wrote, the Warden kinda *feels* like "oh, just a Knight", while the Vikings get the crazy berserker throwing attacks in your face left and right (literally), the Raider who's throwing you and his own kee into your face, the orochi who's throwing dmg in your face and dancing all over the place and the kensei who's throwing unblockable attacks and good range into you, while the conqueror can simply turtle and keep ~3-4 enemies busy by just blocking them, while reading the newspaper and making himself some tea...
While the Warden just has his basic tools like hammer, 2 screwdrivers and flimsy duct-tape to work with, which get's rather predictable over the time...
Like a basic-obstacle that can be overcome in a safe way by using a certain strategy with low effort. (His combos are somewhat easy to read or guess, sooner or later, since there is no great variation of combo-parts to chose from, I think).

At least it feels this way.

Shoulder-bash, top-parry and fast left-right-swings are his best, but very basic tools. Shoulder-bash can be side-stepped or back-dashed. Top-parry is top-parry while the left-right-swings can also be avoided by blocking/dashing. Getting from a top-parry into the left-right-combo + shoulder-checking is good, but you need your opponent to "make a mistake", either top-attacking or being too close/not dashing backwards bc. of a guard-brake/shoulder-dash.

The Warden might now be too terribly underpowered, but he seriously seems to lack some power and is "fluff"-wise being bullied around as the easy-peasy-basic-class, even by the DEVs.
He's even announced and marketed as the ez pz first pick for newbies, which just gives him the stigma of basic-ness xD

[Vordred]

yeah, i'm not saying the warden is bad, it just feels dull, like it was done first, then for the other two vanguards they added things to them to give them there own unique play style, leaving the warden feeling like it doesn't have anything that feel unique to the warden. it's really just that overhead counter, i would say the shoulder bash too, but the conqueror has that as well and much better version of it at that.

[teki38]

I 100% agree. I mainly played the Warden during the Alpha, and yes, his moves are not that sophisticated, but I never felt he was underwhelming.