Junior Member
I'm not sure where to begin with this, honestly. I feel that other classes have a lot of depth and unique skills, and that the Warden falls short in those areas.
Tl;dr: Warden feels like cannon fodder rather than a well-rounded fighter. It needs something added, and I'm not sure what.
Their toolkit lends itself to exactly one combo progression, and it's one that the opponent has a chance to stop if they keep a cool head. It's also hard as hell to get going in the first place. I'll list the moves, then break them down along with flaws.
>It's worth noting that I do understand that there are other ways to link these skills together, and that there's more to combat than just using all of your skills in a row. Bear with the post a bit.
1. Top Parry (Warden Skill)
2. Shoulder Bash (Warden Skill)
3. Side Light
4. Free Side Light
5. Shoulder Bash
6. Heavy Attack, or risk steps 3 and 4 again.
You can start with a Top parry, the Warden's special skill. They can riposte by responding to a Top attack with their own Top Light, resulting in a free hit but not stunning the enemy.
Light attack leads directly into a shoulder bash, so that's next. There is a warm-up for this skill, it isn't a regular, quick shoulder bash. This is a problem, as smashing Dodge will move out of the way of this skill. Shoulder Bash also tends to move people out of range.
Assuming that doesn't happen, land a Side Light attack after Shoulder Bash, combo it into another free light attack.
You must then Shoulder Bash again. A normal throw cannot be used after a light attack. This is another chance to dodge.
I end with a heavy, otherwise the pattern gets too predictable. Repeating steps would only work on a complete novice, or somebody that had dropped their controller.
It is, as described, an exceedingly straightforward class. Combat against other Wardens is predictable and unconcerning.
Against an Kensei, I feel like I need to be on my toes, that patience will reward me if I remain vigilant and set my opponent in a pattern.
Against a Raider, I feel absolutely helpless. Not only does the Warden need some kind of help, but the Raider I fought a few minutes ago took me to zero in a pair of combos linked by their unique throw. I didn't feel that I stood a chance in the first place. I also kept getting thrown even when I dodged. Those hitboxes are not favorable for me.
Conqueror and Berzerker haven't given me too much trouble.
Orochi are an absolute pain, but I think that's just kind of universal rather than my lack of tools as a Warden.
People approaching a Warden should feel like they're going to get stopped, if only for a few moments. They should wonder what's going to come at them first, and to fear what will happen once their attacks are blocked. The Shoulder Bash is awkward and slow, and I'm of the opinion that instead of this skill being used after a Light Attack, that a good, hard gauntlet backhand or punch should replace that move after a Light Attack, stunning long enough for a single heavy hit.
I want to be scared to attack a Warden. Right now, I only feel relief when it's 'just a knight' facing me.
Edit: I'm not sure if it's an input error on my end or what, but the Shoulder Bash is supposed to be pretty quick and not have much knockback. It hasn't been working like that for me the times I've tried. Anyone else having problems with it?
Junior Member
I've problems getting the Shoulder Bash to fire reliably, personally.
Furthermore, I wholeheartedly agree that the Warden feels very underwhelming compared to the other classes available now. I can only imagine it will get worse in the full game if it is not addressed now.
The obvious culprit, in my flawed opinion perhaps, is the lack of attack and combo diversity. While particularly noticeable against other players, it is also very noticeable when tearing through NPCs, which is perhaps a more insidious killer of interest.
The Raider and Kensai, and even the Conqueror, Berserker and Orochi, vary their animations greatly when fighting NPCs. Their lenghty combos offer great entertainment to watch and time to experiment with different button presses. Considering that some time is indeed spent in the general melee in the Domination mode, this is good.
The Warden? Half-sworded slash, Half-sworded stab are the endless repetition. Occasionally, when using the directional keys or sticks, you'll see a pommel strike or, rarest, a proper hammer strike with the guard. Heavy attacks are also very repetitive and often, rather incomprehensibly, struggle to hit more than one NPC despite being wide swings with a longsword. Getting into the general melee with the Warden feels more like a chore than a fun little diversion between duels/players ganking each other in lynch mobs.
I know that the Warden is meant to be a an Easy class to approach, but perhaps some variety and compexity can be added to it?
Junior Member
Reassuring to know it's not just me.
Since posting this, I've had greater success in discouraging enemies by using the parry mechanic (pressing Heavy Attack as soon as you block a strike to set your enemy off-balance. Long enough to get a heavy hit in!) Once you set the pace, it becomes easier to respond to other classes. Raiders still absolutely trounce a Warden though.
Still, the Warden is, in the end, unsatisfying to play in my opinion. Which is an important phrase.
I'd like to see just one stun move added, or a modified dodge, or more combos. Something approachable, but with a higher skill ceiling than what it currently has. Now that I type it out, that's exactly it. The Warden feels TOO basic. I'm honestly not sure it's an approach that the game needs given the highly dangerous combat and the skill required to last long at all.
Junior Member
Hello, so Ive been playing the Warden since I first started, I tried few of the other classes couldn't really connect to them. For most part I can usually take on any class depending on the other persons skill. Been doing Brawl and usually 3rd round they back off of me or hesitate to attack. But yes would like to see more in depth combos.
Member
His toolset is pretty basic, but he isn't. What you could implement to make him more useful, as far as I see in your description, is feinting. Feint your heavy attacks and mix up your offense. If the opponent uses parry a lot, feint the top heavy, then use his top light counter on the opponents failed parry(top heavy attack) And, especially, if you know the opponent will dodge, cancel/feint your should charge and for example guardbreak their dodge. Or keep attacking.
Now what makes Warden's feints especially good is implementing his sweeping attack; RT+RB. It's a very quick attack that always hits from the right even when using a left or top stance (although consumes some stamina so use with caution). But feinting left heavy attack into directly that attack opens up the best of them, if not used too often.
Another thing is parrying, try to use that a lot since they actually lead to guaranteed damage, guardbreak or 2x side light. (As of this moment atleast)
Senior Member
Junior Member
I feel the warden is a bit underwhelming. would like to see a few more combos thrown in. if you cant connect with the 2 side lights on an orochi for example, you're screwed. would like to see a bit more variety with his moveset. i love the top counter but other than that im on the defensive most of the time.
Member
I completely disagree.
Warden, in my opinion is the second strongest class behind Orochi.
If you think he's weak I would say you (or your opponents) are not utilizing his tools effectively.
A quick list of his pros:
- Good Reach
- Good Damage
- Great HP(?)
**Guard Break leads to a guaranteed horizontal light combo that leads into a heavy. This is very, very strong as you can feint this heavy and guard break again, rinse repeat until your opponents learns to dash, roll or attack. Then you can mix in committing to the heavy attack or feinting and attacking with something that covers their dash/roll.
**Parrying an attack leads to a guaranteed Guard Break.
Member
I saw a warden single handedly kill my entire team one by one I only won our bout because he was missing half his health wardens are not at all underwhelming, wardens are possibly the best conditioned to counter orochis with their top counter and stun lock capabilities throw an orochi in a corner and its deadOriginally Posted by Xorathalos Go to original post
Member
I agree. I mostly played the warden during the alpha and it lacks any punch that other characters get. The kensei has mad range and those attack direction switches with some unblockables, the Orochi has the deflects and counters, the raider has the throws and the unblockables, and the warden has what? The top counter and the shoulder bash, which isn't that much better than a regular guard break to be honest.
For a character presented as a good all-rounder it certainly feels like the least utilitarian out of all of them.
