The Orochi's guaranteed damage on deflects | Forums

[Gen.Wolf]

Now hear me out, I'm not going to be yelling "Orochi is broken plz remove character". I do however think he is slightly too powerful. And what makes him too powerful imo, is his guaranteed damage and the pressure that comes with it on a successful deflect. And contrary to the warden (with the somewhat similar top-riposte guarateed damage, on a successful R1 parry) this works in all directions, without even having to press an extra parry button. This leaves very little room to play around that ability, and the deflect in of itself is rather easy to pull of. And I know some of you will say "Well you just have to play defensivly against him", but I think it's rather weird that you should be forced on a ultra defense every time you face an Orochi. Doesn't feel particularly balanced to me.

Other than this I think he's fine, nothing op about him. An Orochi can be countered just like any other character, and at the end of the day it comes down to player skill above all else. He is one of my favourite characters to play as (next to the warden), but I do feel he deserves a slight nerf to his deflect. Whether that be reduced damage, the ability to block his counter attack (yes please), or making the deflect more difficult to pull of in some way, just something. Just my 2 cents (and apparantly a lot of other peoples cents aswell).

I agree that it is guaranteed dmg, but I've won plenty of matches against one that used their deflects. Focus more on disabling them with guard breaks to open them up for attacks and just block their own attacks. Not really hard, just have to be willing to risk an attack and hope they can't counter.

[Slumbering_Crow]

Making the deflects parries by using light attacks is something I would be entirely onboard with, it sounds like a pretty good fix to me.

And at Gen.Wolf; I am not disputing the fact that it is possible to beat an Orochi. People kill Orochis all the time. But it doesn't change the fact that their deflect + r1 is too good, imo. Its not a difficult move to pull of, and it still is crazy punishing to the opponent for simply making any sort of weapon attack (save unblockables), in any given direction. Its just a tad ridiculous in my book.

[Yianyan]

Orochi's kit is generally fine, I think, just numbers need to be adjusted, maybe some stun lengths, tracking and distance on some attacks perhaps. A single hit of the retreating heavy guarantees half of your opponents HP if you don't mess up following up with the two guaranteed top hits. An attack that swift and long reaching on an already superbly agile character shouldn't guarantee that kind of damage when very few or no other characters can perform truly unavoidable chains of that caliber. Assassin types having heavies off of guard breaks is also very strong but might be fine for them.

[ServiusOrtus]

Make it so deflects are parries but using light attack, so using it too early does not result in blocking but in getting hit, and the opponent feinting result in you attack with a light attack in that direction. That's the first thing I'd change for all assassins. And I say this as a Orochi level 20.

Qiwi94, I saw your other thread about this I totally misunderstood you, but now I get your suggestion. I think this is a good way to balance the deflect mechanic, but I almost feel like the Orochi as a character is still extremely viable without deflect at all and might be better off moving Deflect onto a different unique character. I played Orochi a bunch the past two days and I feel like just with the Orochi's dash combos and active guard as a backup defense (I am so bad with deflecting I rarely try to do it and more than not accidentally proc it when I do), the orochi is still a very effective and perhaps more unique class by focusing on a dodge-based defense paradigm primarily.

[READHED]

Make it so deflects are parries but using light attack, so using it too early does not result in blocking but in getting hit, and the opponent feinting result in you attack with a light attack in that direction. That's the first thing I'd change for all assassins. And I say this as a Orochi level 20.

This is a very good idea.

[BingleBamp]

It seems to me that this game relies on guaranteed damage in some ways. Obviously position and reaction will always be a prime factor as well, but using guaranteed damage is usually the thing that give you the edge in a fight, and I have no issues with throw kills or combos that always hit. But with Orochi it just seems like you can never be safe attacking him.For example say your fighting a pretty good warden, he's light attack up parried you once so your thought process should be to not overhead strike him all the time. That would be one way to help avoid that guarantee, same thing for throw kills, if there is an environmental hazard clearly you need to be aware that your opponent will use it. But with Orochi the game devolves into: "How good is this Orochi at blocking and reading feints". It's like all the power of the fight is completely in the hands of the Orochi player, which seems a bit odd. Hopefully something gets changed other than difficultly in pulling off a parry, cause than it's just the same game but harder.

[ServiusOrtus]

It seems to me that this game relies on guaranteed damage in some ways. Obviously position and reaction will always be a prime factor as well, but using guaranteed damage is usually the thing that give you the edge in a fight, and I have no issues with throw kills or combos that always hit. But with Orochi it just seems like you can never be safe attacking him.For example say your fighting a pretty good warden, he's light attack up parried you once so your thought process should be to not overhead strike him all the time. That would be one way to help avoid that guarantee, same thing for throw kills, if there is an environmental hazard clearly you need to be aware that your opponent will use it. But with Orochi the game devolves into: "How good is this Orochi at blocking and reading feints". It's like all the power of the fight is completely in the hands of the Orochi player, which seems a bit odd. Hopefully something gets changed other than difficultly in pulling off a parry, cause than it's just the same game but harder.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...ggested-Tweaks

This is my suggestion for dealing with Orochi deflect/feint paradigm.

[BingleBamp]

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...ggested-Tweaks

This is my suggestion for dealing with Orochi deflect/feint paradigm.

Yeah, I agree. It seems crazy to think that not only does he have a guaranteed counter but also is the fastest character with the best dodge on top of being able to run away forever as well.

[Yggdrasil_67]

Make it so deflects are parries but using light attack, so using it too early does not result in blocking but in getting hit, and the opponent feinting result in you attack with a light attack in that direction. That's the first thing I'd change for all assassins. And I say this as a Orochi level 20.

I like the idea, but there is a problem with it:
Feints would get unintentionally punished if the defending assassin reacts too soon.

IMO they should just trash the light counter and keep the heavy one.
Or make it blockable/slower. By making it blokable, it would allow the Orochi to gain the initiative without dealing free damage, meaning it's not a garanteed 2-hit combo.