Why ever attack when you can just counter every attack? | Forums

[shamus727]

Oh. I thought i was in the Assasins Creed forum for a second

[Abomination713]

I have no issue countering everyones playstyles.
Level 38 on Orochi and level 22 on the knight classes.
A lot of people don't know how ot play this game though. Can kill people in 2 seconds. And win 1v4 pretty often.

You can counter as an Orochi?! :O Wow! So skilled!

You do realized this thread is about the Orochi right? They are broken if someone only waits to be attacked. Which does need to be fixed by Ubi. At least with the Warden, they can only counter like that with an up counter.

Also, if you're going to lie on the internet, you might want to make it more believable. Level 38 and 22? Winning 1v4 with no backup?

[Gen.Wolf]

You should not be able to "counter a counter" because YOU got countered, you being countered means you pay for it. For those classes that requires an over head attack to parries, like the Warden, then don't attack with an overhead, that simple. The Orochi is kinda harder to prevent that, but using a disabler such as the Raider is its counter, stuns keep it from easily seeing your direction of attack, so that's is its weakness, a disabler. I saw another thread on "is there a way to counter a tackle", well yea side step or don't get guard blocked. Though I find that counter window for guard break to be a lil to short as its very difficult to stop it.

The only thing I'd like to see is that every class has some sort of parry/counter and not restricted to just a couple. And I'd like to see guard break be used as a push back or attack canceler if their wipe open during an attack. There were so many matches when I guard broke as they attacked and it did nothing and I get hammered.

[KmF40]

I really don't see the point in initiating.

Because if you're not attacking, you're likely guarding. If you're guarding, you're vulnerable to a guard-break.

Remember, you must blend all game-play mechanics with your chosen hero's move-set to overcome the enemy.

[Vakris_One]

Can you counter a counter? If not, then what is the purpose in attacking? Every time you throw out an attack, you risk getting parried and punished with nothing you can do about it, and it's so much safer to play on the defense through a whole fight with all the guaranteed follow ups you get.

If you focus solely on timing perfect counters, dodging unblockable hits, and countering all guard breaks, you get a free follow up hit in every single scenario and you will win. There's no way for the enemy to get in unless you just react incorrectly. So if both players play like this, the fight doesn't go anywhere.

Unless it's possible to stop someone's counter/riposte, I really don't see the point in initiating. If it is possible, please someone tell me how it works.

Things that unravel a passive defence:
- Guard break
- Unblockables
- Raider's charge throw
- Conqueror's shoulder bump
- Warden's shoulder bump
- Ranged feats such as the bow and the thrown kunai
- Feinting an attack from one direction and quickly switching to attack from the other direction
- Messing with the opponent by continually feinting, dodging and changing up the direction of your attacks while attacking.
- images of cats on the Internet.

There's quite a few options available. Granted that last one will be tricky to initiate without out-of-game help

[Blizzia]

Things that unravel a passive defence:
- Guard break
- Unblockables
- Raider's charge throw
- Conqueror's shoulder bump
- Warden's shoulder bump
- Ranged feats such as the bow and the thrown kunai
- Feinting an attack from one direction and quickly switching to attack from the other direction
- Messing with the opponent by continually feinting, dodging and changing up the direction of your attacks while attacking.
- images of cats on the Internet.

There's quite a few options available. Granted that last one will be tricky to initiate without out-of-game help

Except you forget that guard break is ****ing broken. I swear guard break is the most infuriating thing I've experienced in this game. I can be spamming the living **** out of it while in a stun because I know it is coming from him to continue the combo, and while I'm mashing the button 738 times per second, he gets in the full guard break and continues the combo. Other time I don't even press it and boom, I counter guard break it anyway. It's broken, unresponsive and really a pain in the *** to use and counter atm. It needs either an overhaul or to be fixed.

Unblockables don't unravel a passive defense whatsoever, you just dodge iframe it. it won't do a thing. Unless in 4v4, all feats are pointless to mention.

Also about all the feinting and stuff. It's all great and I do it regularly which messes up bad players crazy much, but the fact of the matter is that it is pointless to do. Face a good Orochi, I dare you, and if you attack even once, you've lost the match. As a warden I just sit back, not even bothering to move my character. I literally sit with my controller and both hands on the right side, left hand ready to spam square for countering his guard break, right hand for stances, feinting and r1/r2. It is the most boring, crappy way to fight someone ever, but it just works. I never hit him myself, just parry. If fighting a good Orochi, this is the only way for me to work, as anything else just leads to him sidestepping and following up with top combo.

[zefurr]

Inclined to agree, against your average player (read: new players) sitting and waiting to counter is by far the safest approach. I spent most of the last day or two of the alpha simply parrying people, throwing them into walls, heavy attack, repeat. Occasionally I mix in a light attack instead of a throw to maybe catch them off guard, sometimes you eat a counter for it.

I ran into only a few good players who actually used feints to some effect. Problem is that most players don't know how to feint, don't know how to parry and are terrible at guard break countering. You get into a bad habit of abusing this against them. Gotta find higher level players who really know how to open up a defense. It becomes about guesses, reactions, baits. Like any fighting game.

The game won't devolve into a purely passive parry fest. Street Fighter 3rd Strike had parries, and that was a very aggressive street fighter, nobody good just sat and waited to parry. They rushed your *** down.


EDIT: Also I have to say I disagree with complaints about guard breaking, compared to any fighting game I've played the window to counter in For Honor is enormous. It's just a question of practice. I didn't run into any issues where my guard break didn't register that I couldn't confidently say I didn't possibly miss-time it, or that it wasn't part of a combo.

[C0rnolio]

I have no issue countering everyones playstyles.
Level 38 on Orochi and level 22 on the knight classes.
A lot of people don't know how ot play this game though. Can kill people in 2 seconds. And win 1v4 pretty often.

There is no level 38 you go back to 1prestige after hitting level 20.
Only afk's can die in 2 seconds.
you win 1 vs 4 when you are in the 4.thats called a 4vs1.

[C0rnolio]

To the Op :

Attack > guard break
Guard break > Guard
Guard > Attack

Heavy attack launched obviously lead to a parry/ dodge / counter.
Fast attack can also be parryied / dodged / countered, but a lot harder.
This is where Feints become needed. 1 or 2 feints in a fight are enought to make your opponent panic and miss his counter.

[Vakris_One]

Except you forget that guard break is ****ing broken. I swear guard break is the most infuriating thing I've experienced in this game. I can be spamming the living **** out of it while in a stun because I know it is coming from him to continue the combo, and while I'm mashing the button 738 times per second, he gets in the full guard break and continues the combo. Other time I don't even press it and boom, I counter guard break it anyway. It's broken, unresponsive and really a pain in the *** to use and counter atm. It needs either an overhaul or to be fixed.

I've found none of the problems you've mentioned about guard break. It has been responsive enough for me to use it when I want to attack with it or counter it. I think it's in exactly the right place currently: It is quicker to react againgst than weapon attacks but you have to be right up in the opponents face to use it. If someone is good enough to grab me then they deserve the free hit and vice versa. It's all part of the strategy of combat in this game.

Unblockables don't unravel a passive defense whatsoever, you just dodge iframe it. it won't do a thing. Unless in 4v4, all feats are pointless to mention.

Unblockables - tell that to the Conquerors that kept on defending against me. When an opponent expects normal attacks they can get caught off guard by an unblockable especially if you mix it up and feint the unblockable from time to time. Make yourself unpredictable.

Feats are not pointless, maybe you just haven't used them enough in Dominion. Smoke bombs and traps that drain stamina, debuffs against opponent's defence and attack, explosive bombs that do damage, ranged weapons that knock opponents off of ladders and pop runners in the back, area of effect healing for yourself and teammates... Not pointless at all.

Also about all the feinting and stuff. It's all great and I do it regularly which messes up bad players crazy much, but the fact of the matter is that it is pointless to do. Face a good Orochi, I dare you, and if you attack even once, you've lost the match. As a warden I just sit back, not even bothering to move my character. I literally sit with my controller and both hands on the right side, left hand ready to spam square for countering his guard break, right hand for stances, feinting and r1/r2. It is the most boring, crappy way to fight someone ever, but it just works. I never hit him myself, just parry. If fighting a good Orochi, this is the only way for me to work, as anything else just leads to him sidestepping and following up with top combo.

Again with the "pointless". I've faced good Orochis with my Kensei, my Warden and my own Orochi. Feinting can catch anyone off guard, even the best of them if you know when to pull it - feinting makes you unpredictable. It lets you fool the opponent by creating a pattern for them to predict and then breaking that pattern at the right moment.

You don't always have to wait for the Orochi to make a move. Put some distance between you then suddenly get in his face and grab him/her. The Warden can do his special parry for top attacks, which are the majority of the Orochi's average attacks. Good Orochis will then start using their dodge strikes and Wind Strike attack all of which attack from the sides. Block and grab. With Orochis you need to choose your moments to attack carefully because of their deflect. That doesn't mean you cannot ever attack them. You just can't go crazy on them (unless they get rattled).