A Few Troubling Aspects | Forums

[MisterWillow]

I would like to see as an April Fools update a system where if you attack someone who is already being attacked by another person or two you instead deal your own damage to yourself. That would brighten my day.

[Necromyrez]

So I've been watching every little video I can lock my eyes on from announcement trailers to the latest footage and I've noticed a few things about the game that I personally find troubling. Yes, I know its early and things will most likely change before release and I haven't had hands on experience with the game. However, I still feel that my observations could be of some use.

First: Many have noted that the UI is far too cluttered when it doesn't need to be. This topic has been run ragged already, so I'll keep it relatively short. We don't need the entire screen to fill up with green + marks every time the player is healed. Its kind of annoying and unnecessary. The green glow around the character and the refilling health bar are enough.

Second: I have a small issue with the executions. They leave you very vulnerable and open to attack which, in some videos, players often take advantage of. The way I see it, an execution should be treated as a kind of small visual reward for defeating your opponent. When you are attacked and interrupted during one, it feels as though that reward has been stolen from you and it's frustrating to watch. It would be nice, in my opinion, if performing an execution gave you a small period of invulnerability only for the duration of the animation. Kind of like the ripostes in the Dark Souls games.

Third: The combat seemed more fun and interesting when it was slower and more methodical. Back in the first gameplay footage shown at E3 2015, it seemed that each player could only take a small number of hits before dying. Maybe 2-3 lighter strikes and only 1 heavy strike. Now it seems that players can bat each other around for a while giving and taking multiple hits before victory/defeat. This not only lowers the tension for each player v player encounter, but it also encourages what seems to be a rather poor playstyle. This leads into my next point.

Fourth: The system seems to encourage a "dishonorable" and rather annoying to watch playstyle. What I mean is this: Because it takes a bit longer to take down an opponent, many players seem to be ganging up on each other attacking from all sides. For a game called "For Honor", there seems to be very little of it to go around what with all the back stabbing taking place. The extended health also seems to encourage an annoying hit-and-run tactic, with players breaking off and rolling away. Understandable against multiple players at once, but annoying in 1 v 1 situations. This would seem fine for classes that focus on this sort of gameplay, like the assassin type characters we've seen in the most recent trailers, but not for the front line warrior classes.

Now, this issue may be resolved later with the introduction of different classes/roles, but if not, I would suggest reducing player health to the original state (as seen in the E3 2015 gameplay reveal) as well as form some system to award points differently depending on how you defeat another player. For example, a player who defeats others by flanking or attacking from behind instead of engaging in 1 v 1 could receive less points than one who played it straight. The reverse would be done for the assassin classes. I believe this would encourage more skillful gameplay and would add that note of tension the combat had in the original gameplay video.

That's really all I have for now. Again, I know its still a bit too early to judge and that certain things have been hidden in the demos or have yet to be implemented. As such, they are certainly not a deal-breaker yet. I would just like to see this game be as exciting and fun as it can possibly be. I would like to also remind everyone that these are just my opinions and should be taken as just opinions, so I would appreciate it if no one bites my head off just because they may disagree. Thanks all.

1st: No comment.
2nd: There is a very real reason to try and interrupt executions. You cannot revive executed players. So that being said, making invulnerable frames on it basically removes the revive system. Unless a player "misses" the window on the revive or finishes without a heavy hit.
3rd: The combat seems appropriately lengthened. The slow and single hit wins would not be fun when outnumbered by 2 or 3 opponents and you get instant death.
4th:No comment.

[handheld brando]

There are actually several reasons as to why the Execution is not invincible. Willow touched on some but if you watch the videos of people executing others you will also notice that the person doing the execution also heals them while making it so they can't be revived.

[General_Valor]

From what I've seen of gameplay videos I can't see why you'd want less health. The aggressive fights between players seem to be over very quickly, never mind the ones where it's 2+ vs 1. When those heavy attacks hit they just seem to devastate health bars.

[MathiasCB]

There are actually several reasons as to why the Execution is not invincible. Willow touched on some but if you watch the videos of people executing others you will also notice that the person doing the execution also heals them while making it so they can't be revived.

Would feel pretty stupid if you'd have to wait and watch your pal get executed before attacking your enemy.
I mean... ''No, go ahead. Don't mind me bro. I'll let you cut my best friends head off before I strike you down.''

[PowerSenpai]

So I've been watching every little video I can lock my eyes on from announcement trailers to the latest footage and I've noticed a few things about the game that I personally find troubling. Yes, I know its early and things will most likely change before release and I haven't had hands on experience with the game. However, I still feel that my observations could be of some use.

First: Many have noted that the UI is far too cluttered when it doesn't need to be. This topic has been run ragged already, so I'll keep it relatively short. We don't need the entire screen to fill up with green + marks every time the player is healed. Its kind of annoying and unnecessary. The green glow around the character and the refilling health bar are enough.

Second: I have a small issue with the executions. They leave you very vulnerable and open to attack which, in some videos, players often take advantage of. The way I see it, an execution should be treated as a kind of small visual reward for defeating your opponent. When you are attacked and interrupted during one, it feels as though that reward has been stolen from you and it's frustrating to watch. It would be nice, in my opinion, if performing an execution gave you a small period of invulnerability only for the duration of the animation. Kind of like the ripostes in the Dark Souls games.

Third: The combat seemed more fun and interesting when it was slower and more methodical. Back in the first gameplay footage shown at E3 2015, it seemed that each player could only take a small number of hits before dying. Maybe 2-3 lighter strikes and only 1 heavy strike. Now it seems that players can bat each other around for a while giving and taking multiple hits before victory/defeat. This not only lowers the tension for each player v player encounter, but it also encourages what seems to be a rather poor playstyle. This leads into my next point.

Fourth: The system seems to encourage a "dishonorable" and rather annoying to watch playstyle. What I mean is this: Because it takes a bit longer to take down an opponent, many players seem to be ganging up on each other attacking from all sides. For a game called "For Honor", there seems to be very little of it to go around what with all the back stabbing taking place. The extended health also seems to encourage an annoying hit-and-run tactic, with players breaking off and rolling away. Understandable against multiple players at once, but annoying in 1 v 1 situations. This would seem fine for classes that focus on this sort of gameplay, like the assassin type characters we've seen in the most recent trailers, but not for the front line warrior classes.

Now, this issue may be resolved later with the introduction of different classes/roles, but if not, I would suggest reducing player health to the original state (as seen in the E3 2015 gameplay reveal) as well as form some system to award points differently depending on how you defeat another player. For example, a player who defeats others by flanking or attacking from behind instead of engaging in 1 v 1 could receive less points than one who played it straight. The reverse would be done for the assassin classes. I believe this would encourage more skillful gameplay and would add that note of tension the combat had in the original gameplay video.

That's really all I have for now. Again, I know its still a bit too early to judge and that certain things have been hidden in the demos or have yet to be implemented. As such, they are certainly not a deal-breaker yet. I would just like to see this game be as exciting and fun as it can possibly be. I would like to also remind everyone that these are just my opinions and should be taken as just opinions, so I would appreciate it if no one bites my head off just because they may disagree. Thanks all.

First: This is a matter of opinion, so there is not much i can say other than that i feel like it is not as bad as people make it out to be.

Second: Then you completely misunderstand the purpose of the execute. The execute exists to make sure the enemy can not be healed to respawn, and needs to be executed by finishing them with a heavy attack. So because this is an imperative move to get a strategic advantage over a specific fight somewhere or can win or lose a game during breaking, it is important to have a counter for it too. By making it interrupt-able, you end up encouraging teamwork and communication.

Third: I only think it looked that way because there was only one character that was played during that footage.

Fourth: Heeeey another For honor pun.... What you seem to misunderstand here is what honor even means on an actual battlefield. Would you let a friend die in battle? For the sake of honor? Of course you woudn't, you would save him, and you would not lose your objective because you wanted to be "honourable", that is not something your commander would be very happy about to say the least. Also, what is the point of a team game mode when you are not actually going to play as a team? For honor also have functions to fight against more than one player at a time, not much footage shows this well, but you can block to the general direction of any non-locked opponents to block their hits, and you will faster enter revenge mode when ganked. Revenge mode makes it so you can not be interrupted when executing and increases damage, allowing you to deal with gankers.

About people running away, no matter they're class, i would also run away to save my life in a real life battle if i thought i was going to lose.

To your second paragraph, i don't think the players health pool is much different like said, and if you introduce a point system like that, then you are not encouraging proper team work, but instead enforcing superficial rules based on your superficial class.

[Patient_Fodder]

.......... i would also run away to save my life in a real life battle if i thought i was going to lose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRj01LShXN8

[YouPlay4free]

> U.I.
The HUD elements MUST BE TOGGLE-ABLE. There is no compromise here. Those who say "it's not so intrusive" may have their subjective opinions about everything from religion's """logic""" to Drumpf's apparent dementia, but their opinions are just that -- SUBJECTIVE. No one should be forced to have their game-screen cluttered if they do not want it so. Above all, such visual crutches / aids fly in the face of the 'hardcore' angle the gameplay of this gaming is being promoted from, and forcing them onto all level of player skill, is insulting.

>executions
Although it may be frustrating to get killed while attempting an execution, it is a more realistic way of playing and it will invariably imbue a risk-reward element, that should (i) make the actions feel more rewarding and (ii) perhaps limit their overuse (given it's highly unlikely there will be thousands of variations thereof and / or the actions will be 'organic' or 'procedural' in nature). See: Mortal Kombat, for how 'exciting' canned kill move animations after the first or second viewing...(!)

>combat speed
Definitely prefer "slow" and methodical over button-mash-happy gameplay. That's in fact why this game piqued my interest and, if this trait is in fact being sold out for more casual-friendly gameplay, the For Honor baby is then indeed being flushed down the toilet in utero -- big mistake. (NB: However, I'd like a comparison video proffered to delineate the apparent evolution / devolution of the game's gameplay, before taking sides on this issue...)

>ganking
They will need to somehow implement a system that discourages rodent-like ganging-up on players, otherwise the fundamental premise of the game will be lost. Perhaps A.I. enemies could 'aggro' towards those in such situations in order to force players away from acting like chimpanzees -or- damage penalties relative to player ratios within a give 'sphere of interaction' (with one another) -- e.g., 1v1 = 1:1 damage ratio; 2v1 = 1:2 DMGR; 3v1 = 1:3 DMGR... or the like (relative to testing and balance).

[MisterWillow]

> U.I.
The HUD elements MUST BE TOGGLE-ABLE. There is no compromise here. Those who say "it's not so intrusive" may have their subjective opinions about everything from religion's """logic""" to Drumpf's apparent dementia, but their opinions are just that -- SUBJECTIVE. No one should be forced to have their game-screen cluttered if they do not want it so. Above all, such visual crutches / aids fly in the face of the 'hardcore' angle the gameplay of this gaming is being promoted from, and forcing them onto all level of player skill, is insulting.

While I think I'm pretty consistent in saying I think everything about the UI should have individual toggles (once I even suggested transparency sliders, which would be better, I think)---so I agree with you principally---I think you need to calm down a little bit.

I'm not sure if you've played the game or not, but I can assure you they are at least somewhat necessary. Playing this and watching this are two completely different experiences, and if you didn't have indicators, it would be nearly impossible to tell which direction you're suppose to block if you fought more than one person at a time, or if you fought that one person at B (where the minions pile up) because all you really see is a bunch of movement with nothing to really focus on---because if you focus too much on one thing, you'll be hit by something else.

In Duels you could probably get away with it, and if only for that reason I still think the menu options should exist, but there's no reason to be so heavy handed.

[ZenBearV13]

Second: I have a small issue with the executions. They leave you very vulnerable and open to attack which, in some videos, players often take advantage of. The way I see it, an execution should be treated as a kind of small visual reward for defeating your opponent. When you are attacked and interrupted during one, it feels as though that reward has been stolen from you and it's frustrating to watch. It would be nice, in my opinion, if performing an execution gave you a small period of invulnerability only for the duration of the animation. Kind of like the ripostes in the Dark Souls games.

I appear to be in a minority of one on this point, but I absolutely hate ripostes and backstabs in Dark Souls. They do way to much damage for one thing, making the game super swingy, but also the long animations and invulnerability periods totally ruin the flow of combat. Interrupt able Executions are the way to go IMO.