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  1. #1
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    How to make the DZ appeal to a wider playerbase

    Face it , you're Never going to create "One" DZ. That will appeal to everyone.

    Let's look at the history of the DZ so far ,

    1 ) DZ at release some players liked it that way, some hated it.

    2) DZ after some changes were made (especially lowering rogue penalties) some players liked it , some hated it

    3) the most recent DZ changes , some players like it, some hate it.

    ( You get the picture )

    Now , going by the Past, and learning from it, what is the likely outcome when Massive makes New changes to the DZ? Answer = some players will like it some players will hate it .

    (I'm not talking about balance,progression,scaling,etc,etc. those are separate issues to be fixed seperatly , I am talking Over all Big Picture of the DZ and how to make it appealing to various play styles)

    .

    There is a Way that Massive can have the DZ they envision ( I currently enjoy the DZ as is, with some minor tweaks needed ) and also have multiple DZ options that more of the playerbase can enjoy.

    .

    Risk Vs Reward gameplay "Works". It's a great concept, but it all depends on how it is implemented.

    Some players are risk adverse ( nothing wrong with that, to each their own) These players don't want to risk anything, and want the game to reward them for logging in.

    Some players don't mind a little risk.

    Some players are fine with moderate risk

    Some players like a 50/50 balanced risk vs reward

    Some players like more high risk

    And some player's like extreme risk , these players want massive risk for a chance to earn the best rewards in the game (nothing wrong with this, to each their own)

    .

    In the above the majority fall somewhere in the middle, with the minority being on both the low and high ends of the spectrum.

    .

    So for Massive to have their cake and eat it to. The need to have Atleast 3 options when playing in the DZ :

    Option 1 ) easy DZ, Toggle-able PvP , the rewards equal the risk = lowest end of the scale, with small chances at drops from the medium DZ

    Option 2 ) normal DZ , the DZ like it was before the current changes = you cannot Cut the extraction rope. NPC's reverted back to their HP and DMG before they were increased, and add in the option to be able for the player to mark 1 High End item in their loot that can't be lost to rogues (only if they have more than 1 high end item on them) , with a rare Chance at drops equal to the hardest DZ

    Option 3 ) the DZ as it is Now (some small tweaks made, NPC's health reduced by 5-10% and NPC Dmg reduced by 5-10%), increase the penalties for going Rogue (more like they were at release) , but also Increased the Rewards for going rogue and large increase for rewards from surviving Manhunt.
    Put a warning next to DZ option 3 " Enter at your own Risk " and state that 4 player groups are recommended but not necessary if you think you brave it Alone or with 2 or 3 others .
    Lastly, make the Entire DZ be the highest level enemies (basicly make the Entire DZ be like DZ-06)

    .

    Ideally there should be 5 DZ options ranging from the ultra easy no PvP DZ, to the ultra hard, but the above 3 options should be good enough for the vast majority of players to enjoy the DZ the way they want .

    All the above options should not be that difficult, mostly the developers just need to increase or decrease some percentages, some changes might be a little more involved , but over all I think these changes would be relatively quick,easy, and really Branch out the DZ instead of Consolidating the ONE DZ we currently have and trying to Force it to be something the majority likes

    (again , having only 1 Option really limits what can be done to make it appeal to various risk levels , you can change the current DZ again, but as shown , it is just going to once again shift who likes the changes from the current DZ and who will now Hate it ).


    {{{{ Note : there should be other DZ options for more variety,and fun, (just some random examples: a pistol only DZ, or a DZ with no shotguns allowed, a DZ that allows 8 or 12 player group, etc.. the more Options and Variety the players have to do something to other than the Standard DZ(so they Don't suffer player Burn Out= Boredom) or also for players to find their Niche play type's (like some PvP players love Team Death Match, but others hate it and prefer Capture/Conquest)to keep them playing the game....... but those are ideas for another thread }}}


    To end, the only negative from the above options that could be imagined would be that it would split up the playerbase in the DZ, but that fear is unfounded,many games have multiple Optional PvP options, and it does not diminish their playerbase, it achieves it.
    Currently only a Portion of the playerbase is playing in The current DZ for various reasons, if there were various options More players would go enter the DZ if they could choose the DZ they are comfortable fit their criteria for Fun. And those players would keep playing the game, and might venture into Other DZ's once they get meet other players, or get bored, or look for a little more risk,etc...
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  2. #2
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    To add, currently the reward system in the DZ(and the LZ) is very Basic.

    You just get weapons, armor,mods,attachments.

    If the DZ (and LZ ) had numerous rewards you could attain through various means it would enhance the game immensely.

    Some ideas:

    1) dyes for your clothes for clothes :

    Some would drop in both the DZ and LZ , some would be specific to the DZ or the LZ, some would be Rare drop, some would be drops only from specific names.

    2) Milestone rewards

    one thing some players find fun in RPG games is achieving Titles that they can display above,below or next to their name in-game, some examples :

    Kill 1000 Cleaners in the DZ = creeper
    Kill 1000 Cleaners in the LZ = stalker
    Kill 5000 Cleaners in the DZ = the maniac
    Kill 5000 Cleaners in the LZ = the freaktastic
    Kill 10,000 Cleaners in the DZ = Reaper
    Kill 10,000 Cleaners in the LZ = Thanatos
    Kill 25,000 etc, etc
    Kill 50,000 etc, etc
    Kill 100,000 etc, etc (higher rank)

    Complete zones :

    Complete 50 incursions = Judge
    Complete 100 incursions = Executioner
    Complete 500 incursions = Annihilator
    Complete 1000 = etc, etc
    Complete 5000 = etc
    Complete 10,000 etc,etc (highest rank)

    Complete collection quests (if you add numerous collection quests, and they each give unique in-game rewards)

    Complete 30 collections = Adventurer
    Complete 50 collections = Thrill Seeker
    Complete 100 collection = Indiana or Croft (player choice)
    Complete 250 collections = Tomb Raider
    Etc.etc

    3) Faction you could join and gain favor with through various means to increase your faction rank to get rewards (there should be Good and Evil Factions for players to Join so they can play how they like , not everyone wants to be a good girl or a bad guy , some girls like to be bad and some guys like to white knight , let players expand and personalize their character,and game play experience = Role Play through in-game choices to diversify their character the way they want, currently we are all just carbon copies of each other )

    Of course various rewards from your choosen faction ( all would be Cosmetic only, no special Weapons or Gear) like Weapon Paints,, Outfits, Titles you earn, etc...etc..

    (You can only choose 1 faction, you can choose different factions for each of the characters on your account but items are not transferable between characters) , you can change factions on your characters for a Very Hefty price, but you lose all rewards from the old Faction that you abondoned)

    The above are just some ways to make the game have more replay-ability, depth and soul, they allow players to customize and individualise their character and their game, and they help polish up and flush out the game.

    The more options,choices,variety players to play the game, and expand on the RPG experience the better the over all health and longevity of the game will be. (It's a main reason RPGMMO games are played for Years, variety ,options,customization,choices, personalization, etc.)
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Giralus Go to original post
    Ideally there should be 5 DZ options ranging from the ultra easy no PvP DZ, to the ultra hard, but the above 3 options should be good enough for the vast majority of players to enjoy the DZ the way they want ....
    One question. why does a non pvp darkzone have to be ultra easy????

    the difficulty of the darkzone isn't the problem. the problem is most of the games players simply don't like pvp.
    how easy or hard the darkzone may be is completely irrelivent. what keeps players out is not difficulty but just they don't like or want to pvp.

    that does not mean a non pvp option should be ultra easy...
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  4. #4
    It already commands about 30% of the average player's time; how much more appealing does it need to be?
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  5. #5
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CalvyB Go to original post
    One question. why does a non pvp darkzone have to be ultra easy????

    the difficulty of the darkzone isn't the problem. the problem is most of the games players simply don't like pvp.
    how easy or hard the darkzone may be is completely irrelivent. what keeps players out is not difficulty but just they don't like or want to pvp.

    that does not mean a non pvp option should be ultra easy...
    First, all these are just suggestion. The developers if they added these options could tweak them how they see fit.

    Second, the Ultra easy non PvP was only an option If they made 5 optional DZ , and that was one of the options, IF they want a More challenging DZ they could choose to play in the DZ that has Toggle able PVP (the Ultra easy could be for new platelets or also is for players that are not looking for a challenge, and just want some easy gameplay)

    Third, for the PVE Only players there is the LZ, Incursions, and Underground, that's 90% of the game, wanting a Hard Mode PvE only DZ in a word = "Greedy"
    the developers Idea for the DZ is that it is the most dangerous place in the game because it's the fastest way to get Loot BUT there is always the chance of having Rogues attack you.
    Remove the rogues , and the DZ is just the LZ with harder Enemies, instead they could just make the LZ have harder enemies, and leave the DZ as the dangerous place it is suppose to be.

    (I am mostly a PvE player, but when I want some PVP chances I go to the DZ, if I could just go to the DZ with No PVP in it, I would be bored of it in a week, I have played plenty of times in the DZ on servers without Rogues, and it's Boring, there is no real Risk without rogues , it's just Wack-A-Mole gameplay without Other players and the Risk of losing your Stuff)

    (Yes the LZ should also offer different modes for easy,normal,hard, and allow there to be other players in the Open world, and have Me Bosses, and events,etc, etc,,, I have other threads asking for the LZ to have numerous Options , this thread is just for more Options for the DZ)
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  6. #6
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Pyknospex Go to original post
    It already commands about 30% of the average player's time; how much more appealing does it need to be?
    What portion of the playerbase are you referring to that it takes 30% of their time ?

    If the DZ is working for the Majority of the playerbase ,than why are there so many people complaining about it.

    If everyone likes the DZ the way it's was at release, why did they change it? if everyone liked the DZ a couple months ago why did they change it? If everyone likes the DZ now why are they going to make more changes ?

    What's appealing to the Current playerbase (the ones I assume you are referring to with your 30%) is obviously not appealing to those that have left the game because it was not appealing to them.

    Lastly, what would having More options hurt ? In my opinion , Nothing, it would just give "All" players some more choices,
    and it would Allow the Developers to create the DZ they want , and also create DZ's some players want , instead of trying to (and wasting developer time on) One DZ zone that most players like or don't like.

    If there were choices , the developers could spend more time on enhancing the PVE side of the game.
    Honestly , in Standard PvP games there are between 6 to 12 different playlists you can choose, Capture the Flag, Death Match, Conquest, etc...etc.. they create the game, make the options, and then they can tweak,balance,tune the game overtime .
    The Division has already Tweaked the DZ 3 Times, and each time they do they please Some players, and piss off others, so instead of trying to please everybody with 1 DZ Option (never gonna happen) create alternate DZ Options and let the Players decide what ones they like or don't.
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  7. #7
    The DZ concept isn't broken. This is just what happens when you mix pve players and pvp players. The DZ is the greatest in the middle of the DLC. At first people don't go rogue as much trying to figure out the meta and farm gear. In the middle players are getting more comfortable going rogue but not consistently as they are still cautious with gear. Then you get the DZ now where people don't care about funds or rank or even hear and go rogue because that's all they can do.
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  8. #8
    The dz is wrecked just full of back shooting griefers. You cant progress in there anymore. They should at least remove the buffs they did. Shotgun damage, 20% PVP modifier damage ect. the dz was once a good place where you could actually defend yourself and have a good battle.
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  9. #9
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by X3holy3 Go to original post
    The DZ concept isn't broken. This is just what happens when you mix pve players and pvp players. The DZ is the greatest in the middle of the DLC. At first people don't go rogue as much trying to figure out the meta and farm gear. In the middle players are getting more comfortable going rogue but not consistently as they are still cautious with gear. Then you get the DZ now where people don't care about funds or rank or even hear and go rogue because that's all they can do.

    I never said the DZ concept is broken, what I did say was " I personally Like the Current DZ , it needs some small tweaks , but I personally Like the Harder Enemies(and I solo 80% of my time in the DZ)

    What I did say was " for the less risk adverse players , and the players that might just want to hop on and enjoy some less Sweaty (Hardcore DZ) DZ gameplay, there should be More "Options"

    Say if a Friend pops on, and they don't like the Current DZ, but if there was a less risky DZ that gave out lower rewards (less risk = less quality of reward) , then we could group up and go do the Normal DZ instead of the Hardcore DZ.......As it is Now there is only 1 option, you either Like the DZ as is, or you don't play there.

    some of my friends Won't go there , and not because they Don't PvP, some do , but they just aren't into the Current Harder DZ , They don't like spending an Hour or 2 to get a decent drop and then get One shotted by a NPC or another player. (Some of my Other friends Love the current DZ, but again there is Only 1 Option )
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  10. #10
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Dan1985UK Go to original post
    The dz is wrecked just full of back shooting griefers. You cant progress in there anymore. They should at least remove the buffs they did. Shotgun damage, 20% PVP modifier damage ect. the dz was once a good place where you could actually defend yourself and have a good battle.
    I agree , the Current DZ needs tweaks, NPC's do a little to much Dmg, they have a little to much HP, Shotgun need work lol, and if your Solo every single Mob makes a bee-line for you,and the NPC's aim and distance is beyond the realm of reality (it's like every NPC is a Sweaty-Pro player , had a NPC pop up from behind cover and "Instantly" target and shoot me from a hundred feet away as I was running by at full speed, just absurd)

    But , even if they Tweak the Current DZ (and I do like the more difficult DZ) some players are just not going to like it, either it's to Hard, or the are Risk adverse , or they are just looking to pop on for an hour and get some decent reward and not lose as much when they get killed by rogues, (and they also might not want to deal with Hard DZ enemies and ultra Sweaty Max-Meta geared Rogues)

    Like I said earlier, there is no real Downside to having some more DZ options, those that like Hardmode can Choose it and have a RNG chance to earn the Best rewards,
    those that are looking for a more normal DZ (like it was at release (minus the extremely Rogue penalties) can choose it , they will have get good gear , it just won't be as good as the Hardmode (but there would be a Rare chance they could get a Hardmode quality drop )
    And those looking to have a easier go in the DZ, could pick the first option .

    Currently there is only 2 choices , you are either a 1 or a 0 , you either like the DZ or you hate it, you either Enter it Or you Don't. So in its present state the DZ Is only an option to the part of the playerbase that enjoys it. But that neglects the vast majority of players that Like the DZ, like the Concept, they just wish they could sometimes play in a easier, less risky DZ when they don't want to go against Tryhards 24-7
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