What should the Co-op Campaign be like? | Forums

[Tracer_511]

Why u hatin on Briggs maybe Kobin takes his spot

[SCAgent95]

Why u hatin on Briggs maybe Kobin takes his spot

Kobin is not a Splinter Cell, he is a thug without an inch of the training required to be a SC, i'm surprised you even mentioned that.Briggs was boring, uninteresting and quite frankly useless character that offered nothing to the plot and overall gameplay, his dialogue lines and general characters was just plain bad.So yeah i don't like him.Actually the entire cast of Blacklist was boring and bad.Sam lost his sense of humor, and smart demeanor he used to have, now he is like all the other average dudebro military dudes in games, not unique like he once was.Grim became too GrimCharlie was your cliche 90s hacker kid (yuck)Briggs was boring and forgettable, seriously if you remove him from the game he does nothing other than being a coop part (which shouldnt happen since he does not have SC training and Sam works alone)And Kobin was just Kobin, actually, he was the only character i quite enjoyed to be honest.

[SCAgent95]

For some reason my post didn't save the paragraphs, sorry if its hard to read, i will try to edit later, since it crashes everytime i try to edit.

Ubis forum need an update, they are full of problems.

[Tracer_511]

I was kidding right now this thread has gone a little awry and all because of a crowbar sequence! It's fine to read no apologies needed!

[EddieTheBunny2]

SWAT teams don't use tomahawks, tactical crowbars, or e-tools.

So you're saying we need to have Tomahawks and crowbars to breach doors in our games now?! I enjoyed the fact that Sam had the darts to knock out people in the books, that I wouldn't mind having(I think), but all this other stuff... NO.

Ever heard of a door that's boarded up? Yeah you can't really lock pick a door that boarded up from the inside.

Ever heard of an alternate path? I've said it quite a few times and it still seems to fly right past you.

I'll take the lock pick any say. But it's not replacing it, it just being placed in there at random times like the other coop elements. Lock pick was straight up removed. But if they did door breach incorrectly, we wouldn't have what's in the game.

I'm saying what COULD be a place for a lockpick they replace with this ********.

You obviously don't take enough time to consider things from another view. Try doing some research first.

Oh no, I do. See, you're arguing that Sam would know all of this stuff due to his training and experience. SURE, but that's not what should be in a STEALTH GAME. Sam can also do parkour and do Mark and Execute and call in UAVs and do a lot of other ********. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD. I try to see the other person's point of view, but I only see about 10% of logic in yours and I'm not saying that as an insult. Most of what you're saying Sam could do is not something that he NEEDS to do. It would just be absurd to put this stuff in the game even though he CAN do it. This IS how we got to where we are with Blacklist. Maxime Beland said "Well Sam isn't limited to this or that. He can do much more". YES, he can, but he shouldn't if we want the game to remain true to it's genre.

Ok you go ahead and read them then.

Okay, that was a clever response, I'll give you that.

[EddieTheBunny2]

Does it affect gameplay? No.

Actually it DOES effect gameplay. A lot more than you realize. You're new to the series as far as I know, so I can see why you'd say that, but play the games a lot more like the rest of us where we've played the games 100's of times except conviction and blacklist we've played about two times. This is what Ubisoft underestimates. THE LITTLE THINGS. The little things can impact a lot.

God no, i hate brigs, if Sam retires bring a new agent, but not Briggs.

Exactly what I'm thinking. I was always questioning why we couldn't play as Vic through the campaign instead of "Sam" since he's the same voice actor and he doesn't look stupid AND he actually looks more like Sam than "Sam" does.

And Kobin was just Kobin, actually, he was the only character i quite enjoyed to be honest.

Yeah, because Elias Toufexis and Carlo Rota were like the only good actors in the game.

[Tracer_511]

Actually it DOES effect gameplay. A lot more than you realize. You're new to the series as far as I know, so I can see why you'd say that, but play the games a lot more like the rest of us where we've played the games 100's of times except conviction and blacklist we've played about two times. This is what Ubisoft underestimates. THE LITTLE THINGS. The little things can impact a lot.


Exactly what I'm thinking. I was always questioning why we couldn't play as Vic through the campaign instead of "Sam" since he's the same voice actor and he doesn't look stupid AND he actually looks more like Sam than "Sam" does.


Yeah, because Elias Toufexis and Carlo Rota were like the only good actors in the game.

How does it affect the gameplay and yes I have played all the games so I know the history of the series. There are no enemies affecting you from either side and you would end up in the same area anyway. I see where you might hate the breaching but it's used as a loading sequence and has no affect on the game it could be changed but it should not be a big deal at all. It seems on almost every thread I've read your always downplaying Ubisoft. Why is that? Micheal Ironside stopped voicing Sam because he couldn't do all the physical moves Eric could simple as that.

[EddieTheBunny2]

There are no enemies affecting you from either side and you would end up in the same area anyway.

It's the feeling of you're in a place that you're not suppose to be in. Even something as little as locked door feels like the place has more security not to mention when you gotta pick a lock before the guard comes to your location and sees you trying to break in or how the door to the bomb in Paris was locked as an extra measure for no tampering was another thing that added a charm to the game. I could go further into detail, but this really should be enough to conclude why it's so important.

I see where you might hate the breaching but it's used as a loading sequence

Even an animation where you pick the lock automatically would have been better than the loud as breach. Still would be stupid for lock picking to be a simple animation, but it would be better than breaching as it is quieter.

on almost every thread I've read your always downplaying Ubisoft.

Because everything they do is a stupid move. I don't WANT to hate on them, but they've been making some absolutely STUPID choices for the past ten years on this series. They have had VERY MINIMAL improvements to this series.

Micheal Ironside stopped voicing Sam because he couldn't do all the physical moves Eric could simple as that.

Michael Ironside wasn't going to do it even if he COULD do mocap. He's wanted out of the series since CHAOS THEORY. If he wants out that's fine, but don't butcher the character with somebody like Eric Johnson who doesn't have the first clue what this series is built around nor the character himself. You simply make a new character and GOOD one for that matter. Briggs for example would have SUCKED as a new character because he's super boring and doesn't have any personality. He obviously would have been better than Eric's version of Sam, but not an acceptable character. They need to make a new character that's actually rich in personality and background. Make the character actually interested in who they are playing as.

[the_oper8r]

So you're saying we need to have Tomahawks and crowbars to breach doors in our games now?! I enjoyed the fact that Sam had the darts to knock out people in the books, that I wouldn't mind having(I think), but all this other stuff... NO.

Never said that actually, stop throwing your words in my mouth. I never said need. I'm completely fine with being able to use a tactical crowbar to breach a door in addition you bashing it, opening it, picking the lock, etc. I don't want them as some scripted sequence and I said that it's not completely unfitting. It's louder yeah, but not as much as just kicking down or bashing in the door. Give me options, let's say the quieter and less noticeable way is picking the lock, down side is that it takes time. Or you could pry the door open, it's quick but it's slightly louder (not loud enough to put guards on full alert), and the guards will notice it if they look at the door later.

Ever heard of an alternate path? I've said it quite a few times and it still seems to fly right past you.

Ever heard of options? Ever think that there might only be one way to go? Give me options. You seem to like that until it's something that wasn't in Chaos Theory, nice job at seeing from another perspective.

I'm saying what COULD be a place for a lockpick they replace with this ********.

I have nothing to say concerning this because I hardly understand what you're trying to say.

Oh no, I do. See, you're arguing that Sam would know all of this stuff due to his training and experience. SURE, but that's not what should be in a STEALTH GAME. Sam can also do parkour and do Mark and Execute and call in UAVs and do a lot of other ********. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD. I try to see the other person's point of view, but I only see about 10% of logic in yours and I'm not saying that as an insult. Most of what you're saying Sam could do is not something that he NEEDS to do. It would just be absurd to put this stuff in the game even though he CAN do it. This IS how we got to where we are with Blacklist. Maxime Beland said "Well Sam isn't limited to this or that. He can do much more". YES, he can, but he shouldn't if we want the game to remain true to it's genre.

Im saying it's fine because it's another option. We have had the option to literally bash the door down, or pick the lock/open it. Why not give us something non-scripted to have as an in between, but specifically for use on locked/boarded up doors? You still haven't given me a reason for why it couldn't be added other than "it's not stealthly" or "it's not Splinter Cell". Cause considering what I've said its no more "not stealth" than being able to bash down a door or throw a frag grenade.

[Dome500]

This IS how we got to where we are with Blacklist. Maxime Beland said "Well Sam isn't limited to this or that. He can do much more". YES, he can, but he shouldn't if we want the game to remain true to it's genre.

To be fair, that is by far not the main problem. In fact I'd say it is much more the restrictiveness rather than the "enabling Sam to do too much" that is the problem here. I like options if they make sense. I wouldn't for a tomahawk, but a tactical crowbar doesn't sound horrible. It's the bigger (and louder) version of the knife he used in CT.

The problem, the main problem I see is not that they are thinking of new things Sam can do or new ways he can do it, the problem is that those things, even if they are not necessary, take priority over some other essential and more important things. Gotta set your priorities right.

That being said I felt as though Blacklists biggest limiter was always the fact that instead of "sandbox" we had little confined, self-contained "Blackboxes", and that the narrative dictated escalating situations out of the players control way too often or forced the player into a linear sequence that was boring after the first or second time you played it. The lack of some environmental interactions that were there previously is another thing that added to the fact that Blacklist was not able to surpass Chaos Theory in it's design (lasers for the most part, computers that can be hacked, locks that can be picked, broken open or retinal scanners to bypass, bombs to defuse (in an actually coordinated mini-game where you had to use you intelligence to find out that you had to use thermal vision on the hotwires to identify them (remember that one guys?)), people to interrogate).

While I do not hate Briggs at all, I just thing he is a little bit too uninteresting for me to be the next protagonist, so I agree on him. I loved Kestrel and Archer, about one of the few things that Conviction did right

I see where you might hate the breaching but it's used as a loading sequence and has no affect on the game it could be changed but it should not be a big deal at all.

I haven't read the prev. pages, so forgive me if I'm missing something. I never liked the breaching, exactly because they were loading screens. I think that makes the game a little more linear and I don't like that. I rather have a much smaller area than what we get in one entire coop mission in Blacklist (all little areas put together) and instead have all the area accessible at once much like Camp Omega in Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes. That allows for a lot of creative freedom with coop partners being in completely different areas, doing side objectives (some of which may require coordination like for example having to hack 2 devices on opposite sides of the facility simultaneously) on their way to the main objective and exchanging dynamic information about layout, enemy movement, secret weapon or item staches, intel files, etc. The "do area A then wait for partner at point X to proceed to area B" was never a nice way to do Coop for me, I much more like the way they did it in Chaos Theory, were you could do Coop maneuvers on almost any surface or give your partner a boost below almost any ledge that would be to high for 1 person to jump up to. Felt a lot more dynamic. Sure, there were maneuvers (rappel) that only worked in specific places, but some of them were optional alternate routes, and there were the more dynamic climbing coop maneuvers that balanced out the scripted with the more free version. It might not have been much more dynamic, but it felt a lot more dynamic. Point is, the door breaching can hardly be seen as a coop maneuver in Blacklist (IMO), and I really did not like it or most other Coop maneuvers since most of them were only there to hide loading the next part of the map. Here is hoping with next generation consoles they will not have to do that.


Main points for my ideal next Coop in SC7 would be:

• Take the template of the 4E Missions in Blacklist
• Apply the level design of Deniable Ops
• Apply the customizability and custom rules of D-Ops (and possible rules if you can)
• Enable us to choose between 3 - 4 different Agents (not Sam if possible) or create another team like Kestrel and Archer
• One viable character for the team would be Kestrel, I'd love that if it is somehow possible to make him an asset
• Have a nice Coop story. 4 - 6 missions, sandbox areas, maybe a story that intertwines with the singleplayer campaign just a little much like CTs did
• Have a few side story mission (coop or alone) like the Grim Missions or Kobin Missions we had (or mix of both) with an actual story to them
• Enable all Coop maps for free play alone or with a partner (much like D-Ops in Conviction with different modes and rules aside from the coop story)
  
  • Possible Modes would include: Information Theft (Grim mission like), Hunter (much like Hunter missions in Conviction, infiltrate and eliminate)
  • Those mission types can be applies to all "maps" of the coop campaign and additional rules can be applied
  • Possible rules are: Nr. of enemies, X alarms = game over, no gadgets, no weapons, non-lethal, lethal only, no sonar, enemy types, security settings (how many cameras, lasers, etc), etc
• Make coop maneuvers more useful and dynamic (add some maneuvers that can be done dynamically everywhere (ledge boost for example))

I think that's about all I want out of a coop mode. Not that hard to do if you ask me.