What should the Co-op Campaign be like? | Forums

[SCAgent95]

Ease, men,
really, I just brought that crowbar breaching up to point out some other problem.
Is Not what method coop protagonists uses, I bring the breaching thing up because it's simply overused, the constant level section-loading no-backtrack situation in SCB coop missions is just annoying. one can only go further into the level unless both players are in the same place. performing this "breaching" thing. after that, both player were stucked in a new section, and the one section section before isn't even that big or interesting. you always feel being trapped in the area. apparently the game just isn't capable to load more complex section at the time, even tho we clearly have bigger, more deteailed one-load levels in CT. and the fact that the game constantly, repeatedly using "dual-breaching" as an excuse to summons two players together in order to generate the next tiny section is just laughable. even if you don't care that much about the game has to load so many times in one mission, you'll still be amazed how much locked/but crowbar-able door there can be in the level. designers don't even bother to come up any other type of excuses to bring players together to load boggles my mind. like it's always doors that automatically shutdown dead to keep us from going back! well, how about be more creative with some more high cliff edge you cannot climb back, or the structures collapses because we're in ruins, a broken elevator like the one in Seoul, remember the convincing way what the CT coop has to do to make sure both player are in the same place so next part of the level can be load and also stop players from backtracking, in the NK missile base, were 2 players actually Need to perform a coordinate task(not just go there and press X key), player A need to stay at high level and ropes down the player B, so B can access some control to bring up a elevator in order to safely send down player A to the same place with him, Simply Brilliant! it make all the narratively sense for the level, it's not a chore that bores players, it's even fun to do. and mostly, even the level obviously has other loading spot, each scenario was only used once in the mission. It definitely strengthen the experience.
and I don't even want to question again why do we need have smaller, simpler, linear, one-way level design through out coop and SP in this day and age, when we clearly knows the franchise use to have bigger, more complex and detailed, multi-routed levels back in 2004

Great post, +1 i agree its a shame, its like we are going backwards sometimes

[the_oper8r]

So your problem is just that it sections the players off too much? I can agree with that.

[Tracer_511]

I see what your saying where i never had the opportunity to play the CT co-op missions there is a level similar to that in Conviction where both players are on opposite sides and are detectable from enemies on either side but may also move freely. The next part involves hacking a computer on the top of a small building in a very large garage. Player A could move around freely on the ground while and keep the enemies distracted while freely allowing Player B to hack the computer. This might not be exactly what your saying but, I do like the arrangement of having players separated while performing separate tasks.

[coltcat]

But in all seriously, why the hell is it always dual crowbar breaching? Can't we lock-picking or something? its obviously more stealthy. ....oh right, because "these set pieces are slow and will interferes with the fluently-paced gameplay, so we decided to drop the idea, and so does hacking."

oh gawd, I can't believe I'm saying this, EVEN if we don't have real lockpicking gameplay now and designers really don't want to bother with is "getting 2 player through the door" business, How about just a "press-X to pick lock" showing on the screen and requires both players to press the button! it's so lazy it will even save devs from adding another breaching animation. you simply just open the door. at least it emphasize the illusion of you being stealthy. as for the potential followup question about why players are still unable to backtrack, well, seeing in the hypothetical scenario devs are already pretty unmotivated, why bother asking.

[EddieTheBunny2]

I said that breaching a locked door with an e-tool, tomahawk, crowbar, etc is not unrealistic.

It's not Splinter Cell. We don't breach doors, we uses a lockpick OR we find an alternate route... OR if an AI happens to open the door, we can quickly slip in, but breaching doors just draws too much attention. (Not in the game, just... it doesn't look right. That's what SWAT does, not stealthy spies)

I meant that it was IN Splinter Cell before that. And being able to breach a locked door isn't replacing opening it or bashing it

It's replacing the lockpick. What would you rather have, silently picking a lock or bulldoze your way to open a ****ing door? I'm pretty sure you'll say lockpick since you seem to be more of the type of person with more than half a brain unlike the people creating the ****ing game.

you can't stop yourself from insulting anyone that disagrees with you

Some people disagree with me, I'm fine with that. If someone highly disagrees with me, I'll try to see their point of view. If somebody says breaching doors is okay to have in a STEALTH GAME, I'm going to question why the **** their mind went from an IQ of 180 to 0.5 so fast. Everyone on here seems to know their ****, but when I see something absolutely ludicrous as that, I'm going be frontal assault mode on it. Not that you're suppose to take anything personally, but it really just means I'm STRONGLY against that.

He's never said openly to anyone random something along the lines of "I'm Third/Fourth Echelon, a secret operative that has the authority to do whatever I want to accomplish whatever possibly international-law violating mission I'm on". There's a thing called Operational Security, and Sam has never broken it at random times.

I'm thinking it's time to reread the books then!

[the_oper8r]

It's not Splinter Cell. We don't breach doors, we uses a lockpick OR we find an alternate route... OR if an AI happens to open the door, we can quickly slip in, but breaching doors just draws too much attention. (Not in the game, just... it doesn't look right. That's what SWAT does, not stealthy spies)

SWAT teams don't use tomahawks, tactical crowbars, or e-tools. They use battering rams and lock picks. The CIA's Special Operations Group (which again, is the closest thing to real Splinter Cell operatives, so yes, sneaky sneaky) do use tomahawks, tactical crowbars, and lock picks. And considering that Sam underwent training at the Farm/Camp Peary (all Splinter Cells do) and was a CIA paramilitary officer, it's completely in his skill set. Ever heard of a door that's boarded up? Yeah you can't really lock pick a door that boarded up from the inside.

It's replacing the lockpick. What would you rather have, silently picking a lock or bulldoze your way to open a ****ing door? I'm pretty sure you'll say lockpick since you seem to be more of the type of person with more than half a brain unlike the people creating the ****ing game.

I'll take the lock pick any say. But it's not replacing it, it just being placed in there at random times like the other coop elements. Lock pick was straight up removed. But if they did door breach incorrectly, we wouldn't have what's in the game.

Some people disagree with me, I'm fine with that. If someone highly disagrees with me, I'll try to see their point of view. If somebody says breaching doors is okay to have in a STEALTH GAME, I'm going to question why the **** their mind went from an IQ of 180 to 0.5 so fast. Everyone on here seems to know their ****, but when I see something absolutely ludicrous as that, I'm going be frontal assault mode on it. Not that you're suppose to take anything personally, but it really just means I'm STRONGLY against that.

You obviously don't take enough time to consider things from another view. Try doing some research first.

I'm thinking it's time to reread the books then!

Ok you go ahead and read them then.

[Tracer_511]

Again it's just a point for loading the next area of the game again it's not a big deal and maybe the doors aren't lock pickable jammed or something I don't know but do know this should not in any way be a big deal. Does it affect gameplay? No. So why is this a hot topic I would have bringing back archer or kestrel would be more popular I didn't a random crowbar sequence would take up two pages....

[SCAgent95]

Again it's just a point for loading the next area of the game again it's not a big deal and maybe the doors aren't lock pickable jammed or something I don't know but do know this should not in any way be a big deal. Does it affect gameplay? No. So why is this a hot topic I would have bringing back archer or kestrel would be more popular I didn't a random crowbar sequence would take up two pages....

Actually it does effect gameplay, it forces the player to go and crowbar through the door rather than allowing multiple routes around it, which is much better and allows for more tactics and approaches to any given situation, as you said its there to hide the loading screen, but it should be done better and not as lazily, in chaos theory the coop never forced the player like that, it used more creative methods that actually required cooperation.

As fans we go overboard with some things , there was a 50 page thread discussing Sam's Face in Blacklist back when the game was announced, i was in the "he looks very young" team

[Tracer_511]

He did look young how old is fisher in game any way when is Briggs taking over because we all know he's taking over at some point

[SCAgent95]

He did look young how old is fisher in game any way when is Briggs taking over because we all know he's taking over at some point

God no, i hate brigs, if Sam retires bring a new agent, but not Briggs.