What should the Co-op Campaign be like? | Forums

[the_oper8r]

REGARDLESS. It's not SPLINTER CELL. Everyone on here seems to argue "This is realistic tho" and "This is stealthy tho" the question is "IS IT SPLINTER CELL?" The answer is NO.
We do not breach ****ing doors in Splinter Cell, we climb through vents. We do not hide behind walls, we use shadows.

It's making the game authentic. And Splinter Cell can't stay the same thing forever. Breaching doors using non-explosive techniques fits in well. What were people's reactions when they learned that you could use a knife in Chaos Theory? It didn't ruin stealth but it was different. To that point it wasn't Splinter Cell. But it existed in the game completely fine. Stop saying everything you don't want "isn't Splinter Cell".

[SCAgent95]

It's making the game authentic. And Splinter Cell can't stay the same thing forever. Breaching doors using non-explosive techniques fits in well. What were people's reactions when they learned that you could use a knife in Chaos Theory? It didn't ruin stealth but it was different. To that point it wasn't Splinter Cell. But it existed in the game completely fine. Stop saying everything you don't want "isn't Splinter Cell".

To be fair, your comparison is a bit weak, a knife that stealthily slits throats and has multiple uses (cut wires,sabotage etc) and a crowbar/tomahawk that produces a loud THUNK when opening a door aren't exactly the same now, are they? (plus where the hell are they keeping those crowbars?, authenticity my buttt )

Although the Knife in Chaos Theory could be used to break locks (remember that?) it also allowed to use lockpicks, or bypass it for another route entirely, which leads to the main point here.
SC should have multiple paths of approach, whether its a backdoor or a vent it should be up to the players,
The biggest problem in Blacklist is that it forces the player always in one route, every level in the campaign and especially in coop had some forced action element which undermines what SC should be about (and that's why most of us didn't like it)
Simply put most of us don't want FORCED action in SC, maybe allow 1 or 2 moments in the campaign where it makes sense (but still allow for freedom to do things) but the rest should have a freedom of approach (like in chaos theory)

Everyone's reaction to the knife was positive back in 2004 when we saw it it for the first time, it was an natural evolution for SC, and was something we all wanted every since Pandora Tomorrow.

Changes are great as long as they fit to the series and are a natural evolution of it, in everyone's eyes its different though, we can't all agree to everything, which is fine, you think breaching doors should be in the game, and while i don't disagree with you, having the knife or a stealth gadget to open said doors, is great, allow me to say that i think that there should also be another way to go through said doors, cause that's my preferred method, and didn't like that in Blacklist it forced me to do it.

[EddieTheBunny2]

It's making the game authentic.

I think you're confusing authentic with another word cause it's everything BUT authentic.

Splinter Cell can't stay the same thing forever.

The bottom line is it needs to stay Splinter Cell. Chaos Theory made the game feel new.

What were people's reactions when they learned that you could use a knife in Chaos Theory? It didn't ruin stealth but it was different. To that point it wasn't Splinter Cell. But it existed in the game completely fine.

Everyone was perfectly fine with it. The knife was just an addition. It wasn't the knife replacing knock outs, you could have both KO's AND the knife. How the **** was that not Splinter Cell? Do you see me *****ing about the Karambit in Blacklist? No. I don't give a **** about the karambit. I personally like the knife from Chaos Theory more ONLY because you can actually see the knife go into the target where as Blacklist you can barely even see the knife when he uses it, but the knife makes little to no difference since you can knock people out which is what I mostly do.

Stop saying everything you don't want "isn't Splinter Cell".

Why don't you read the damn book for yourself, sparky. I don't exactly remember Sam having a UAV with Rockets or openly exposing himself to the public.

The biggest problem in Blacklist is that it forces the player always in one route

Yes, exactly. They bragged about having "multiple routes" when in reality it was just multiple small paths that keep you on the same route or they all lead to the same room making them all no different form each other so it was still linear as hell.

Everyone's reaction to the knife was positive back in 2004 when we saw it it for the first time, it was an natural evolution for SC, and was something we all wanted every since Pandora Tomorrow.

Yup. The knife had absolutely no negative effect on the game which is why it was seen as a natural and good addition to the series.

Changes are great as long as they fit to the series and are a natural evolution of it

Perfectly described.

[the_oper8r]

To be fair, your comparison is a bit weak, a knife that stealthily slits throats and has multiple uses (cut wires,sabotage etc) and a crowbar/tomahawk that produces a loud THUNK when opening a door aren't exactly the same now, are they? (plus where the hell are they keeping those crowbars?, authenticity my buttt )

Well tomahawks and crowbars aren't as loud as you'd think they are when prying a door open, I've done it before myself. Fair enough on the knife having multiple uses, but it's not like being able to breach a door completely replaced being able to open it. We can still do that. And seriously? Where do they keep them? Where do I keep 3 proxy shockers, 3 gas grenades, 3 EMP grenades, 3 smoke grenades, 4 pistol magazines, and 6 5.56 rifle magazines? Lol. Authenticity means that a piece of gear, technique or event is close to something that would appear or occur in real life. A game being realistic usually speaking in terms of gameplay mechanics, like health, speed, and stuff like that. And of course, forced action is bad. Never said anything defending it, I said that breaching a locked door with an e-tool, tomahawk, crowbar, etc is not unrealistic.

I think you're confusing authentic with another word cause it's everything BUT authentic.

Gonna copy this from another part of my response- Authenticity means that a piece of gear, technique or event is close to something that would appear or occur in real life. A game being realistic usually speaking in terms of gameplay mechanics, like health, speed, and stuff. Real life CIA case officers and paramilitary operatives learn how to breach doors as one of their many skills.

Everyone was perfectly fine with it. The knife was just an addition. It wasn't the knife replacing knock outs, you could have both KO's AND the knife. How the **** was that not Splinter Cell? Do you see me *****ing about the Karambit in Blacklist? No. I don't give a **** about the karambit. I personally like the knife from Chaos Theory more ONLY because you can actually see the knife go into the target where as Blacklist you can barely even see the knife when he uses it, but the knife makes little to no difference since you can knock people out which is what I mostly do.

I meant that it was IN Splinter Cell before that. And being able to breach a locked door isn't replacing opening it or bashing it.

Why don't you read the damn book for yourself, sparky. I don't exactly remember Sam having a UAV with Rockets or openly exposing himself to the public.

First I gotta say this- Chill the **** out. You're a passionate fan bordering on toxic ******* because you can't stop yourself from insulting anyone that disagrees with you. Now I don't know how old you are but it isn't healthy for anyone to be this heated and spiteful over a video game.
Now onto my response. I have read the books, all the Splinter Cell ones and majority of the mainline Tom Clancy books. Sam never exposed himself to the public, in the books or otherwise. He's never said openly to anyone random something along the lines of "I'm Third/Fourth Echelon, a secret operative that has the authority to do whatever I want to accomplish whatever possibly international-law violating mission I'm on". There's a thing called Operational Security, and Sam has never broken it at random times.

[SCAgent95]

Fair enough about the carrying the crowbar, where is it though in his person? i cant see it? If they go for realism, show it, in Blacklist it just magically appears on his hands, its still silly to me for Sam to carry a heavy and long bar like that around him,doesn't feel right its not as small and versatile as grenades,ammo and much heavier than that, that was my point it just doesn't make sense to me, he is not a military soldier carrying lots of equipment, he is a stealthy versatile operator and it should resemble that.
A hatchet would be much more believable (would be used from climbing too)
I have crow-bared a door before too, its not that loud but it is in fact loud, as i said too i didn't disagree with having the option to open doors.

I actually been asking for the series for a full equipment screen, i'd like the option to go into missions without the main rifle for example
Given the choice i wouldn't carry lots of extra gear only the necessities.

[the_oper8r]

Fair enough about the carrying the crowbar, (where is it though in his person? i cant see it?) its still silly to me for Sam to carry a heavy and long bar like that around him, its not as small and versatile as grenades,ammo that was my point it just doesn't make sense to me, he is not a military soldier, he is a stealthy versatile operator

I actually been asking for the series for a full equipment screen, i'd like the option to go into missions without the main rifle for example
Given the choice i wouldn't carry lots of extra gear only the necessities.

Agree on equipment screen and no rifle, I like that. It's not on his person but tactical tomahawks/crowbars aren't very big.
http://cdn.hiconsumption.com/wp-cont...S13-Shrike.jpg This one is 10-11 inches.
http://cdn.thisiswhyimbroke.com/imag...bar-hammer.jpg This crowbar is about 12 inches.

[SCAgent95]

The one he is using in Blacklist is much bigger than, and as i said there, it magically shows up in his hands, that's not realism.

I did a couple of edits on my previous post,

I have nothing against having a crowbar/hatchet (like the ones you showed in those pics, i actually have 1 like that but its even smaller XD) and multiple options to open doors, don't know why we are even having this convo right now

My only complaint was how stupidly forced it was in Blacklist and how it didnt show up on his person and just appears.

[the_oper8r]

The one he is using in Blacklist is much bigger than, and as i said there, it magically shows up in his hands, that's not realism.

I did a couple of edits on my previous post,

I have nothing against having a crowbar/hatchet (like the ones you showed in those pics, i actually have 1 like that but its even smaller XD) and multiple options to open doors, don't know why we are even having this convo right now

My only complaint was how stupidly forced it was in Blacklist and how it didnt show up on his person and just appears.

Ok than, I also don't like that it's forced. I'd rather just be able to do it independently of one of those coop segments.

[Tracer_511]

The crowbar sequences aren't even a big deal it's just used at a point to enter the next area and let the game load. Even if these sequences were a big deal at least there not using sledgehammers like the Police/SWAT do.

[coltcat]

Ease, men,
really, I just brought that crowbar breaching up to point out some other problem.
Is Not what method coop protagonists uses, I bring the breaching thing up because it's simply overused, the constant level section-loading no-backtrack situation in SCB coop missions is just annoying. one can only go further into the level unless both players are in the same place. performing this "breaching" thing. after that, both player were stucked in a new section, and the one section section before isn't even that big or interesting. you always feel being trapped in the area. apparently the game just isn't capable to load more complex section at the time, even tho we clearly have bigger, more deteailed one-load levels in CT. and the fact that the game constantly, repeatedly using "dual-breaching" as an excuse to summons two players together in order to generate the next tiny section is just laughable. even if you don't care that much about the game has to load so many times in one mission, you'll still be amazed how much locked/but crowbar-able door there can be in the level. designers don't even bother to come up any other type of excuses to bring players together to load boggles my mind. like it's always doors that automatically shutdown dead to keep us from going back! well, how about be more creative with some more high cliff edge you cannot climb back, or the structures collapses because we're in ruins, a broken elevator like the one in Seoul, remember the convincing way what the CT coop has to do to make sure both player are in the same place so next part of the level can be load and also stop players from backtracking, in the NK missile base, were 2 players actually Need to perform a coordinate task(not just go there and press X key), player A need to stay at high level and ropes down the player B, so B can access some control to bring up a elevator in order to safely send down player A to the same place with him, Simply Brilliant! it make all the narratively sense for the level, it's not a chore that bores players, it's even fun to do. and mostly, even the level obviously has other loading spot, each scenario was only used once in the mission. It definitely strengthen the experience.
and I don't even want to question again why do we need have smaller, simpler, linear, one-way level design through out coop and SP in this day and age, when we clearly knows the franchise use to have bigger, more complex and detailed, multi-routed levels back in 2004