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  1. #1

    Don't be afraid of change

    Been running a build with a shotgun and LMG without pulse or first aid and actually winning quite a few pvp engagements. I've also been, gasp, using cover! Other builds and skills actually do work in this game.

    1.2 is going to mix things up quite a bit but once the dust settles I think the meta will shift quite a bit.

    Several times last night I had smg zerg rushers think they could just rush up and headshot me down in an instant and I casually blew then away with my shotty. It is possible!

    I think weapon balancing is closer than most realize. Smg and/or crit chance just need a minor adjustment.
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  2. #2
    I've also been adjusting myself to the post Sentry nonsense world.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by NLxAROSA Go to original post
    I think these are fine. Just give shotguns, LMG and AR their own buff.
    Well, see shotguns fundamentally have a different set of problems all together in this game.

    I've done a fair number of CM missions in the last week with them and even a HM incursion. Due to the rate of fire, you can't afford to just spam shots and have to aim carefully, which sounds like a good thing until you realize you can just spam clips with an SMG and not have to worry about it.

    The effective range is so low that the number of scenarios in which you can use them is extremely limited too.

    So basically you have a weapon that requires an ideal situation to be useful and even in that ideal situation, doesn't do as well as SMGs.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by The_Quieter_One Go to original post
    Well, see shotguns fundamentally have a different set of problems all together in this game.

    I've done a fair number of CM missions in the last week with them and even a HM incursion. Due to the rate of fire, you can't afford to just spam shots and have to aim carefully, which sounds like a good thing until you realize you can just spam clips with an SMG and not have to worry about it.

    The effective range is so low that the number of scenarios in which you can use them is extremely limited too.

    So basically you have a weapon that requires an ideal situation to be useful and even in that ideal situation, doesn't do as well as SMGs.
    While I totally hear what you're saying, there are a few things you should consider about shotgun that are advantages. The main thing is they do all of the damage at once in one shot. This means you can stay behind cover and pop out to take a shot and go right back into cover. While admittedly this is situational there are plenty of situations where this is a nice advantage. They also do a lot more stagger than SMGs. What this means is if you have an enemy that actually takes a while to kill, you are actually safer using a shotgun and take less damage. Both of these attributes combined just make shotguns a little better for defense. Right now is smgs are ridiculously overtuned and they fairly negate those defensive values but I think after the sentry nerf this might actually flip. We will see. In PvP it's nice if you can roll and consistently land headshots and immediately roll again. Because you do all your damage at once you can effectively evade a lot of SMG fire and get your shots in and win. Also, using one is none means you rarely have to reload.

    I'm not trying to make the case that shotguns are as good as smgs. But I do think they're close and will be even better after the update.
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  5. #5
    I also wanted to point out that the range on the sasg is pretty decent. Plus it's the same shotgun that the lmb uses so...you know...it's definitely OP.

    P.s. Massive I really want a GS 204 870 blueprint wink wink!
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  6. #6
    For the life of me, I can't understand why my lmg does less damage per shot than both my AR and SMG. I even have a +lmg damage perk on one of my gear pieces.
    Lmgs by design are meant to be slow firing(in comparison to other automatics) and heavy hitting, yet for some reason in this game the only benefit they have is mag size.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by MurderrTrain Go to original post
    For the life of me, I can't understand why my lmg does less damage per shot than both my AR and SMG. I even have a +lmg damage perk on one of my gear pieces.
    Lmgs by design are meant to be slow firing(in comparison to other automatics) and heavy hitting, yet for some reason in this game the only benefit they have is mag size.
    Because lmg's have the longest optimal range apart from marksman rifles and they have potentially 200 round magazines. You are supposed to use them from a distance outside of SMG range. When you do and a guy with an SMG is stupid enough to stand still and try to take you down you will beat him.

    They are good support weapons. Think about loading incendiary ammo in an M60 with 200 rounds. In a PVP environment that's a whole lot of crowd control via burning. Plus the M60 that was in the base of operations last week had a third Talent predatory which is freaking awesome in PVE. You can take out entire groups without ever having to take cover and constantly regen your own health. It's pretty fun.

    If you control your engagement range properly they have their uses. I'm not saying they couldn't use a little more damage but they do have some good usefulness.
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  8. #8
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    It's funny when I first started this game and went from Rank 0 to 71 in the Dark Zone and 50 to 60 of those ranks as a solo player.

    My load out was

    HE Tactical ACR (Brutal/Deadly and Fierce)and an HE Military M60 E plus I used Mobile cover and Smart cover along with Heal Pulse and the Damage + special or Survivor link.
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