Member
I think a lot of people going "lol its pvp nub get used to it111!" and "anything goes!11!" are missing the point entirely. The Rogue system is absolutely, in theory, a decent idea to implement. It adds a feeling of paranoia, of risk and reward, that really sucks you into the feeling of being in a lawless, post-apocalyptic pit where anything and everything goes. Removing Rogue Agents entirely and turning the Dark Zone into "that place where bullet sponge enemies patrol" would be extremely boring and a contrast to one of the game's more unique ideas.
HOWEVER.
Being one-shotted by players who are far too high in item level does not make for a fun game. It is not thrilling, it is not competitive, it is not exciting. It simply is frustrating. It's a very dull, anti-climatic and annoying thing to see four red dots sprinting across the map to your position, to effortlessly SMG down anybody and everybody who may offer resistance. There's no challenge, there's no skill there, it's just a poor mechanic. "Well it's not meant to be fair!" the detractors cry... well, no it's not fair, nor should going 'Rogue' (literally shooting somebody in the back) be fair, but there's a difference between a harder challenge and the absolute minimal amount of skill or effort being a high item-levelled Rogue requires. Of course, the separate bracket is incoming. That's good. I only hope UbiSoft actually thought this threw and swapping to gear that will bring you over the mark will instantly zone you into a different bracket.
The Rogue system is a decent idea conceptually, but honestly it feels at such odds with the tone of the game from a player perspective. The PC literally saves New York, then hops over a wall and suddenly decides to become a total murderous scumbag for no real reason beyond a flashy new rifle? I really feel like it would have worked better if the Rogues were -literally- a faction that the player could join, pitting permanent Rogues vs loyal SHD Agents. The funny thing is, the ending of the story (spoiler alert) actually alludes to this... with Aaron mentally slipping you a business card and planting the seed of potentially going Rogue with him.
Junior Member
I agree with you to some degree. Rogues to add to the DZ dark and intense atmosphere. I also, agree that going rogue is a choice and pitting permanent Rogues vs loyal SHD is a good idea. I also think, they should impliment a way to look behind your character..besides taking cover or rolling. This one liitle addition would help any person in the dark zone be more aware of his/her surrounds and maybe preventing that possible back stab. Also, I would take out all the special ammo from DZ and take out the special talents...this would people on a more even playing ground using more tactics than just skill popping....especially in groups (rogues or PC).
Junior Member
The problem lies within the game mechanics:
1. Going rogue should have been a high risk & high reward thing, But as it is right now, The reward outweights the risk by far.
2. Since the exp you gain going rogue is scaled with your DZ level, Meaning at higher levels, It's much faster gaining EXP by going rogue instead of killing mobs.
Eg. At level 90 surviving rogue level 1 rewards you with 6K exp, All you have to do is kill someone and run for one minute. On the contrary, You have to clear ~30 mobs to earn just as much.
Talking from my own experience,I believe I am on top of the DZ foodchain, By top I mean I am the lone-wolf player that can solo an entire rogue group with my 320k DPS, 92K HP with 65% damage reduction, Reckless and 20k skill power. Even against a 90+ rogue group, Few deaths can usually take the entire group down (not like I care about losing DZ exp / cash since I am sitting at Lv99 with 2 mil DZ cash).
If I decided to go rogue myself, 99% time I can get away with lv1-3 rogue since I know the map very well and I can avoid anyone along the way before my timer expires. Manhunt is a bit tricky for a lone wolf, But I normally avoid manhunt at all costs.
If I decided to join my friends as a group, Then there is virtually no risk going rogue. We can chain 4 signature skills, Focusing fire targets, Combine skills such as turret / stick bomb, We can mow down dozens of players who trying to take on us.
Junior Member
This argument will continue as long as dz exists in its current state because there seems to be only 2 types of player.
Those that live for PVP ad those that hate it.
If I wanted PVP then I would play BF or COD.
I enjoy solo and co-op which is why I bought this game.
I played the beta and never once saw a rogue in the DZ.
I see all the time, 'dont go in alone' I am newish player on the ps4 and dont have many friends that play this (those that did have since quit).
'join a group' been there done that! following happens'
end up in a group that decide to go rogue and as my pvp skill suck i die as a rogue and lose lots.
Groups of 3 use matchmaking to get a 4th, bring you in and then kick you so they can kill you as you have no backup (guess this is fun to them)
end up in a group who's pvp skills are as bad as mine, result = fodder for those rank 99's that farm DZ01 (such brave players they are!)
Never yet joined a group and been able to survive more than ten minutes before being trolled by rogues (often 6 or 8 running together !!!)
I know the next thing (or the first) to be said, apart from the usual 'learn to play' is 'no one forces you to go in the DZ'.
Well sorry but that is NOT true.
Both the daily and Weekly missions require you to do stuff in the DZ therefore we HAVE to go in the DZ or lose the credits for the weekly and daily missions.
If the DZ is an EXCLUSIVE area for pvp where the rules are stay out unless you want to play PVP then they need to remove the DZ segments of the weekly and daily missions
Some Rogues say that DZ rank doesnt matter or doesnt make any difference.
Sorry it does!
As per one poster in this thread said, he doesnt care about dying as he is rank 99 and has 4 million DZ funds, so there is the first difference it makes.
It also means they have access to the blueprints for high end gear that so far I have never seen for sale or drop anywhere else.
As always I am sure this post will receive the mandatory comments about being a noob (were you not all noobs once) or about crying, whining etc but i dont care as we dont all have time to play pvp games 24/7 365.
Junior Member
+1...I agree DZ is very unbalanced and PVE side is lacking heavily on content. I bought the division knowing DZ was going to be pvp and the LZ was more for pve. the problem is that the LZ does not offer the same high level enemies out side missions. Once you hit 30, the enemies in the LZ are lvl 25-30 standard levels. if they would scale with the player and make there loot tabels equal to those in DZ people that don't like DZ would be happier. Also, people DO NOT LIKED TO BE FORCED to play in DZ just to be able to buy HE blueprints that take an insane amount of DZ funds to purchase. Those same BP should be obtainable in the BOO on the same weekly rest using PC or a combination of PC and SC to purchase. The DZ as it is promotes bad behavior because its easier to go rogue and rank in DZ and the punishments are too small.. To go rogue you just shot a person 3 times, run in front of player fighting NPCs making them go rogue, 4vs1, GS gaps to large, list goes on about the bad behavior. Now, most poeple dont mind PVP, but want a balanced playing field and little to no progression loss, which isnt the case in the DZ progression is punishable and PVE people loosing xp, loot, and currency is very game breaking. Now that being said, cheaters and gankers will always be an issue when a game impliments PVE with PVP together unless the game is designed to be that way like DAYZ. Another problem is even though they keep adding more DZ brakets they didn't lock them and people just lower their GS to the 163+ bracket using 204 main weapons and 4 set sentry or other 4 piece set and changing 2 gear items and secondary weapon and pistol to get to that lower level.....this is a game breaking mechanic for anyone in DZ trying to lvl period or pvp period. THe DZ should be dangerous and rogues add to this tension..making sure your always on you toes. That said if players had the ablity to scan behind them while playing it would help everyone from possibly getting ganked from behind...which seems to be the majority from posts and other media. I dont know, but one thing I do know that mixing pvp and pve together then it will cause major balancing issues for both LZ and DZ players. PVP players are asking for SUrvivor LInk to be nerfed becaus its to OP in DZ, but works fine in PVE...what do you think willl happen if they nerf it for PVP it will directly effect PVE. THis is why most MMOs now have seperate PVP and PVE mechanics or the option of turning PVP on or off, so one doesnt directly effect the other and both sides stay happy. I dont now if MAssive will ever fix this and 1.2 update looks like they tried to help PVE but again focused even more in placing people in dark zone if you read how LZ gear will be aquired compared to DZ....Massisive doesn't seem to know how to handle things and listen to thier community which is shrinking dailly. I hope the future brings better changes, but as it is I do not see a long future for this game on its current track.
Member
It's actually a pretty simple mind set and easily understood. PVP'ers like to fight people, no biggie. So where's the challenge in ganking low levels? There is none. The gear sucks as it is low level, the players can't compete with the higher end gear of the ganker, so no challenge, so why do it? Because there is no challenge. These gankers can't compete with equally geared PVP'ers so they prey on low levels because it makes them feel POWERFUL! Ooooooo, what a MAN! He can beat someone who never stood a chance. Isn't he something? Nope, he isn't. he's a child with nothing better to do than waste other peoples time and ruin their gaming experience. If they are older than say 4, then they have the mentality of a 4 year old. I think there should be limits on where you can go corresponding to your level. level 90's should not be able to interact with level 10's. That's the only thing that's going to fix this problem, because the Gankers aren't going to grow a conscience. They are NOT going to grow a pair either and go fight something worthy and challenging. They're just cowards who have to take advantage of others to make themselves feel good.Originally Posted by Mr_AndersonNEO Go to original post
Senior Member
It's very simple: The people complaining are the people that don't want to be there in the first place. If there was a progression path for PvE players that didn't involve funneling them unwillingly into the DZ as fodder, there would be no complaining.Originally Posted by EvilPr0digy Go to original post
1.2 isn't going to help this at all - it's making it even worse.
Funny that Massive won't even consider a non-PvP enabled dark zone, but they're perfectly content to let the PvP players avoid the PvE side of the game. Heck, they don't even have to run back to the BoO to empty their stashes anymore.
Senior Member
My theory is they favor the PVP side because it's a quick and easy metric to "prove" their game is a success using online numbers of players in the DZ. This doesn't take into account why players are there (being forced to go in to progress), or the quality of their experiences (like this and countless other threads report). Just that they are there and nothing more.Originally Posted by P00K Go to original post
The irony is even those numbers are dropping.
If the non-PK players eventually leave and only the Rogues remain... Most of them will leave, too because they don't want a fair fight which will finally send a message to Massive the DZ is "not working as intended". But at that point it probably won't matter because UBISoft will use it as an excuse to shut down the servers for both PVE (log in) and PK (DZ). Lose-lose all around, there are no players to be found...
Overwatch is coming in two days.
Far Harbor is out.
No Man's Sky in June.
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Mirror's Edge II
The list goes on...
Even if some of these are single player games... These are the types of games PVE / RPG players prefer, so there will be no reason to come back to TD if those game provide a fun and balanced gaming experience solo, or online.
Senior Member
I'm glad to see a lot of people feel the same way like I do about the DZ. I think a PvP toggle would be quite a good start, how hard would that be? I for one would really like to put a stop to those who are basically ruining the game experience for others because they continuously troll people who would like to get higher end gear because these e-****s have nothing better to do with their life besides trolling other players. If this isn't fixed this game will die really.
I myself am only playing it for the daily and weekly assignments now. And as said, this game FORCES people to venture into an area to complete some of these assignments. An area they don't even want to go into! This is the most stupid implementation of progressing in a game ever.
Fix this Ubisoft, or this game will again end up where a lot of your games ended up for me. Return to the shop where I bought them for a refund. And for Pete's sake, stop making PvP for games. In Assassin's Creed it already sucked because you removed the most fun game modes, and this game is far from better.
Member
I didn't got a chance to come back on the forum this weekend. Mucho replies....
First of all, ppl who tell me why do you solo in DZ? I reply, Why not???? I have paid for that game. I hope I can play any map available. Even DZ. The problem I have is...I don't understand the way these (High level Rogues) ppl are thinking. In the REAL life that I lived, I've been raised ont HELPING weeker ppl, not beating them to death. If you don't want to help, ignore it. If you really want to ruin another person's gaming experience, fine, but AT LEAST, don't shoot him in the back while he's fighting NPCs. Don't be a coward.
Real life scene with gaming behavior....Me: Oh! God! That poor guy there on the ground has been beaten. I'm going to help him. And when I'm kneeling to help the guy...BANG!!!! Mr Rogue hit me in the back with his baseball bat and run away laughing with my wallet in his hand. (You can add more Mr Rogues in different scenario).
Second....I've played PvP games before this one....When I pick Deathmatch map, I'm expecting being shot in the back or by multiple ennemies. It's not like in this game where sneaky and hypocritical behavior is commun.
Last...Nice to see that there is mods working on this forum, good job, willyvic. No sarcasm here, just surprise. I have red so many posts here worst than mine without notincing any infractions given.
Dear Mr_AndersonNEO,
You have received an infraction at Ubisoft Forums.
Reason: Inappropriate Language
nuff said.
