Senior Member
An interesting idea came to my mind when I was today browsing trough my old Lineage 2 screenshots... And then it hit me... What if we had a similar system of PKs (player killers) aka rogue in the Division.
In that game when you went "red" aka your name colored red as in killing a player you had to kill NPCs to get rid of it. The more people you killed, the more you had to kill NPCs. Also each player kill cumulative added to the time you stayed as a PK with a bigger and bigger chance of losing some equip on you when killed by a player. In cases of many previous PKs the status remained even after being killed untill killed multiple times which removed the red PK status with the use of a special item, but that is not the main point.
Now how to make it work in Division?
Lets say you are the average player that goes rogue sometimes by accident (dont we all hate that?) or on purpose coz of boredom or to grief. How it would work? The rogue kills on neutral people would cumulate and add over time which would influence the duration of the rogue status and the severity of the punishment. The cumulative rogue kills would decrease over time and even faster if you didnt kill anyone in the next day/days. And yes that would remove the simple "timer". Rogue agent killed will also remove the cumulated own rogue kills in a 1 to 1 ratio.
Some examples below:
- occasional rogues > Johny has 2 rogue kills for today bcoz he killed two guys that wanted to steal his suply drop. He has nothing to fear since that low amount of rogue kills needs only a few NPCs to be killed and his penalty will be relatively mild since he has a "clean" sheet.
- intentional rogues aka the rogues that steal loot, but dont grief on purpose > Jimmy has a total cumulative 25 rogue kills and he went rogue on a dude stealing his loot. He got some nice drops from the killed guy and he even extracted it, but now he has a rogue status that requires quite abit of NPC deaths to get rid of it and on top of that he is risking severe DZ currency loss multiple times untill he manages to get rid of it. He got killed a few times and now reconsidered his actions and with being a good boy for several hours he got rid of some cumulated rogue kills and next time he goes rogue the punishment will be less severe since Jimmy behaved.
- griefing rogues and rogue groups > Bob likes to kill for fun with his group and also in the lower level zones which adds even more penalty to the rogue status! Everyone can see that he is a rogue by choice and is being hunted down all the time. He doesnt care for exp loss since he is using an alt char, but he cares for losing DZ currency and that is unified across all chars same as PhC!
So what rewards will the rogue have after this? This would allow a sort of "faction" bonuses for rogue status time and kills. Decrease the penalty of neutral players being killed depending on the rogue status of the agent killer and increase the rewards for killing rogue players by neutral agents again depending on the rogue status of the player (similar to what is now, but with bigger rewards). There would be a slight multiplier if the rogue kills were in a group!
I would remove the penalty for neutral players being killed in the DZ 1 and 2 zones and increase the penalty for rogues killing in those zones. This rule will NOT be included in the DZ 201+ bracket ofc, but will be active in the lower DZ drackets.
Cheers and keep the toxicity at the door please.
Member
I played Lineage 2 also (max level chars in all my MMOs I play -I PvP (I'm DZ rank 77 w/ 204 Aug, 214-240 Sentry 4 piece,
204 Savage gloves, Reckless chest, 204-217 gear score)
but
the PvP here isn't real PvP --it's mostly ganking, griefing than actual PvP -and that's driving majority casual players away as statistics & exit surveys show from history)
&
all the NCsoft MMOs & most other MMOs --all the ones with 'Free-For-All' PvP (Ubisoft's Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc) failed & dropped down to under 100,000 people even though they started out with millions initially because
statistics & history from them show that vast majority of 80%-90% of players hate the ganking in 'Free-for-All' PvP because they lose time & xp/currency due to all the ganking & griefing even though a small 10%-20% ganking playerbase loves it
NCSoft & Lineage developers who left to form their own MMO companies learned their lesson after lots of exit surveys
&
focus groups & in their following MMOs of Guild Wars,
Blade & Soul as well as other MMOs like
Warcraft,
StarWars Old Republic,
Elder Scrolls, they replaced the 'Free-For-All' ganking with Faction vs. Factions & removed ALL XP/currency penalties from dieing whlie PvP
P.S. Did you know that NCSoft was developing Lineage 3 --the team split & NCSoft developed/revamped it into the excellent
Blade & Soul (Faction vs Faction by changing costumes out of combat, no penalties for dying)
while
the some of the team that left developed their version into
TERA (Faction vs Faction, no penalty for dying) ?
NCSoft sued the TERA team for stealing code, claiming TERA was developed from what was supposed to be Lineage 3)
You can check those games out.. all 3 use the Unreal Engine 3/4 & have similar combat gameplay
The related thread on Solutons to DZ is here
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...g-from-History
You can Vote for your solutions in the poll/survey here http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...s-Faction-Flag
..guess what the results are?
It echoes what Lineage 2 developers/NCSoft people found out ...
~the
same results the other MMO companies found out:
~86% of the people here
don't like the current 'Free-For-All' ganking PvP, PKing here either
Massive is headed the same way towards the same fate as Ubisoft's earlier Shadowbane, Darkfall, & Lineage.. down to under 100,000 players despite starting off with millions as gankers & griefers drive away the majority casual players
Senior Member
Senior Member
No timer. The more they kill, the more punishment. I doubt you got my point at all.Originally Posted by DarienStegosaur Go to original post
Member
Just sharing info on how Lineage 2's system you suggest fared (not too well for keeping playerbase above 100,000 despite intially selling millions)
Your system of xp/loot loss comes from NCSoft's in Lineage 2 .. it was found unworkable for maintaining & growing populations beyond 100,000 ..
which
is why all successful MMO companies now have no XP penalty for dying from PvPing
It's not even theoretical now ..BlackDesert recently launched in the US/EU with a system similar to Lineage 2 as you suggested:
BlackDesertOnline's Lineage 2 system of 'Free-for-All' PvP open-world & xp penalty on death (but prevents PKing until level ~40)
....and just like Lineage 2, ganking has made it drop down to #34 on Korea's game chart despite an initial launch & the best graphics of any MMO ..
it just launched in the US & Europe in Feb 2016 with a total of 400,000 sales after 1 month combined on both continents (about 200,00 each on both continents) .. according to Reddit posts, they experienced an 80% playerbase drop also...
Coincidence?
Senior Member
The failing of those MMORPGs goes down coz of the current player mindset. Korean type grind MMORPGs are simply not popular anymore. Doesnt matter how much they try. And I strongly disagree when it comes to Lineage 2. The game was killed by the devs years ago by changing the game alot. Something similar is happening to WoW now. Lineage 2 was the second most successfull MMORPG after WOW years ago when it was a few years old and the pvp was a big part of the fun. NO mmorpg will be successfull nowdays.Originally Posted by JiuJitsuMMA Go to original post
And as I said... I dont know if you even read the post, but I actually left out the xp losses for a logical reason and rather focused on currency loss for rogues and NO xp loss for neutral players at all.
Senior Member
I got your point. It is a terrible idea.Originally Posted by LonigusEze Go to original post
It punishes people for not having a full group.
It forces rogue players, who if solo, have up to 23 other players chasing them to also fight NPCs.
It forces rogue groups, who even in a full group, may have 20 players chasing them to also fight NPCs.
It allows non-rogue players to area deny Rogues from killing NPCs, even if the player is not good enough to directly fight the rogues.
It taxes the rogues, who already have limited resources, to make sure they have enough to also fight some arbitrary number of enemies.
It allows a system which can force me to play as a Rogue for (What do you think is fair on this timer scale? Hours? Days?) massive amounts of time. Killing 5 people already gives me a minimum of 5 minutes, which can be delayed indefinitely by things shooting me.
Do not assume that your idea is so amazing that anyone who does not agree does not understand. Anyone who understands your idea should tell you it is terrible. This is a thinly veiled plea to punish rogues because you do not like them killing you.
Senior Member
Lol I dont give a rats *** if rogues kill me. I hit the rank 99 wall long ago. That asumption is incorect.Originally Posted by DarienStegosaur Go to original post
I could go on and explain to you in detail, but obviously it is not gonna change your mind.
Member
I like PvP (but not PKing people because they lose XP, currency (aka, their precious time, setting them backwards) when they die so I never gank, never grief people even though
I'm DZ rank 77 with Aug 204 gs,4-piece 214-240 Sentry, 204 gs Savage gloves -
but
I will happily kill rogues or PvP in other games that have no penalties for PvPing from Destiny, TERA to Blade & Soul to Diablo3 to Halo & Call of Duty) ..
-they need to remove the penalties for dying from PvPing if the developers want more people to do it
(and it remove much of the frustration newbies/casuals get from being ganked & griefed)
because
it drives away casuals/newbies when they see their XP or currency go down & they're going backwards instead of progressing despite the time they've spent (or 'wasted')
BTW, Blade & Soul SUCCESSFULLY launched in US, EU, & Asia -they have millions of active players
Warfame also launched .. they have over 4+ million players also last I heard on all platforms
They are doing successfully (they are free to play but have a cash shop --interestingly, a developer remarked how 2% of their playerbase buys from the cash shop, which funds their further DLC,updates) despite being Korean grind or US grind games
Regardless, ALL successful MMO-type games from Diablo 3, Gulid Wars series (millions sold & active) to Blade & Soul (millions active) to StarWars to WoW have NO penalty from dying in PvP -they only give rewards to encourage it
