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  1. #1

    The Division: NOT AN RPG!

    So some people are calling the Division an RPG, including the DEVS...
    Something hit me last week, when I stopped playing Division to play Witcher 3 (for the first time)
    And this week, after playing 1 week of Witcher, I realized how much fun an RPG is and what it should be.. and Division is not an RPG.
    Let me explain:

    First off, character creation is important in an RPGs like Elder Scroll, but Witcher has a Protagonist that can`t be changed due to story telling, Same as Uncharted 4, sometimes you MUST have a specific character, but in the Division, you don`t, yet the character creation is so limited, I keep running into `Myself` played by other people, not very RPGish, I was once in a group of 4 with the SAME face... in an elevator, speaking of which NEED elevator music!... moving on.

    Looting: holy cow is looting fun in Most RPGs, NOT drops... Looting!
    In rpgs, walking into a house and seeing all the crates I can loot for all kinds of stuff including materials, gold, barrels to break etc... I can spend 20 minutes looting a village and then go into inventory and see what I got, what I can create, what I can brew, what blueprint I found, etc... Division? A few crates here and there in SPECIFIC looting areas for Materials only.
    Honestly, RPGs have random loot everywhere and most of the time you do not get them from boss drops but by smashing a Crate! Division calls it scavenging when in reality there is NO scavenging to be done in this game, a few Division tech cases here and there, boring. Not Very RPGish.

    NPCs: in RPGS Are somewhat fun, have a story to tell, you can even barter and have so much more thought to them. In the Division, they call you stupid and get mad if you don't buy stuff, that's it. What about the guy on the Radio? why don't we ever meet him? who is he? who cares what he has to say I have no connection to that NPC. And the voice track of the division is SO repetitive and annoying. The NPC in the division is bland, boring, have no actual story to tell and no one cares for them. Not very RPGish.

    Inventory and Challenges SO in RPGs you meet bosses with different abilities, and must adapt and sometimes change your armor and weapon, and even spells to defeat them. You have to customize your character to beat the bosses. In witcher for example you have a Bestiary that tells you the weakness and how to defeat certain bosses and monsters, from low level mobs to giants... You have to adapt and change spells and gear on the fly. But in the Division, Just SHOOT as many bullets as Possible that do the Most damage as fast as possible until you kill them. the only thing that changes in bosses in the division is Their Weapon and Name...sad and not very RPGish. We do not NEED to change our stats, bullet type, weapons, grenades, NOTHING needs to be changed on our character to actually Beat a boss or Mob. Why not make a Boss that can only take damage when Shocked... or On fire... etc... make US change on the fly our strategy and make the world feel more alive instead of just Bullet Sponge Enemies. The only time we might feel like we are playing more strategically is when shotgunners come out or Shield holders... that's it! Everyone else? JUST SHOOT! Boring. In witcher,, again for example, I find items that can change my stats completely and make a huge impact on different stats, but in the Division, just equip whats Better and trash the rest. Don't hold on to anything since you will NEVER use it again, however, In witcher (again for example only) I am level 13 only and I am still keeping a level 5 sword, because it does poison, which is good agaisnt a certain type of beast. I have a reason to hold on to things as the world changes, and evolves in the division, like an RPG should. Let's not even go into the SPACE available in RPGs to hold and keep your stuff compared to the Division.

    REALISM Rpgs have some sort of realism, most are in fantasy world so have spells and magical armor etc... but in the Division we have Skills (Spells) and Consumables (Potions) and Bullet Types (Enchantments). Which is pretty good I guess, they had to adapt to the real world, but in the real world, if you get shot 400 times in the head, you're dead, I don't care how much armor your have. Role playing games needs some sort of realism according to the world you are in. I hear the next patch will increase your HP or Armor or something... so in PVP we can have even more Running around in circles, shooting each other in the face 400 times! In witcher, again for example only, when I meet a big boss monster, I run! I hide! I drink potions and read my bestiary to see what to do! I role play!... In the division? TAKE cover (if you need to) and shoot... how boring it that, not role playing there, not very RPGish.

    Anyways, look I can go on and on and Love RPGs and that is why I bought the Division, but sorry to tell you, it's not an RPG. And I hate massive for tricking us like this. It's a world full of same old sponge bullet bad guys with Division agents that all look the same (even their bodies) and civilians that are mostly slim and good looking... no fat people in NY?... only some of the Bosses are bigger, so they can Bullet Sponge? Here are some Ideas I would do to make it more RPG like:

    - A whole new Character Creating and BODY modifications: Fat, muscular, skinny, short, tall etc..
    - Make the world and damage more realistic, everything is easier to kill, including your character, so take cover! (Oh look, I am getting shot in the back, but instead of jumping behind cover or a car, i'll just keep running until they are tired of following me, it's ok, I have adamantium backpack?).
    - Make more stuff breakable and/or lootable (Garbage Cans, Car trunks, JTF crates, dead civilians, etc... everything lootable for credits, mats, gear etc
    - Make the vendors more realistic, make them move around their area or safe house. jesus, standing in one spot for 2 months will give you... well, death.
    - Give more life to important characters instead of civilians. The main characters are always in the same spot saying the same thing.
    - Everything in the game seems like a Trueman show. Same exact world every time I log in for a daily or just to play. Make some random civilians in the street be actual vendors roaming around, with random stuff to sell or trade.
    - EVERYTHING is tradable at all times anytime to anyone.(Realistic! and will keep more players online and create a community feeling in the safe houses).
    - Special bullets are NOT on a timer, instead you have to find EACH bullet, loot them. you 55 explosive bullets? well that's all you get to shoot if you equip them. (Like flaming arrows in RPGs).
    - Make bosses each have a different way of killing them and have them deal different type of damage and make each one have a Specific AI and way of fighting.
    - Make some bosses invincible to Bullets, and you need to use skills only or grenades only because they have a "Magnetic Shield" agaisnt bullets or do Magnetic blasts that disables guns from shooting. Give special abilities to bosses and not just different Weapon types. make some immune to explosions (bomb squad armor). Just be creative with every single mob type in the game.

    Anyway, you get the point of what I am saying? This game is NOT an RPG, it is a Meta-Game Shooter with NO actual class and very little rpg "elements' so they can call it an RPG/SHOOTER... Wrong, The Division, you are simply an CRAFTING/SHOOTER.

    For me, I am going back to the Witcher now to be immersed in a giant, ever changing world full of NPCs full of surprises. Bosses with special abilities who challenge me in different ways rather then just hide & shoot. A world full of Surprising Quests and Unique Characters at every corner, Vendors I can play cards with, hundred of different materials and blueprints. No maximum credit to gain and loot. Weapons and gear that each have their strong suit depending on my situation. Everything is lootable, and my horse can carry stuff for me too. Just thinking about RPGs like that makes the Division look like a Beta game, an empty world where the characters have not been scripted yet and the vanilla named bosses have not yet been given their abilities. If the Division IS an RPG to you... it's a very bland and boring one and you NEED to play more RPGs...

    Have fun!
    I know I will... on Witcher 3, fallout 4, uncharted 4, battle born and some Diablo... until 1.2 that is... hopefully, they save this boring rinse repeat end game.

    Also, RPG does have a category and this game would never be in that category at award ceremonies. It would go under shooter. Not even MMO.


    EDIT:
    I just saw this video, after writting this post, and he seems to get what I am trying to say.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Vgl448Ccg
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  2. #2
    The division is not an MMO either, as much as they want to call it that.

    DZ player limit is like 24? Thats a MASSIVE online multiplayer? Yeah..... right.

    4 players in a group is a MASSIVE online multiplayer? Yeah..... right.

    No guilds/squads/teams..... however you want to label it..... is a clear indicator of a massive online multiplayer? Yeah..... right.



    Stop calling this game a massive online multiplayer when it in no way represents that genre. Its kind of insulting to the actual MMO's to be compared to the division.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Technopium Go to original post
    So some people are calling the Division and RPG, including the DEVS...
    Something hit me last week, when I stopped playing Division to play Witcher 3 (for the first time)
    And this week, after playing 1 week of Witcher, I realized how much fun an RPG is and what it should be.. and Division is not an RPG.
    Let me explain:

    First off, character creation is important in an RPGs like Elder Scroll, but Witcher has a Protagonist that can`t be changed due to story telling, Same as Uncharted 4, sometimes you MUST have a specific character, but in the Division, you don`t, yet the character creation is so limited, I keep running into `Myself` played by other people, not very RPGish, I was once in a group of 4 with the SAME face... in an elevator, speaking of which NEED elevator music!... moving on.

    Looting: holy cow is looting fun in Witcher 3 and other RPGs, NOT drops... Looting!
    In Witcher, walking into a house and seeing all the crates I can loot for all kings of stuff including materials, gold, etc... I can spend 20 minutes looting a village and then go into inventory and see what I got, what I can create, what I can brew, what blueprint I found, etc... Division? A few crates here and there in SPECIFIC looting areas for Materials only.
    Honestly, RPGs have random loot everywhere and most of the time you do not get them from boss drops but by smashing a Barrel! Division calls it scavenging when in reality there is NO scavenging to be done in this game, a few Division tech cases here and there, boring. Not Very RPGish.

    NPCs: in RPGS Are somewhat fun, have a story to tell, you can even barter and have so much more thought to them. In the Division, they call you stupid and get mad if you don't buy stuff, that's it. What about the guy on the Radio? why don't we ever meet him? who is he? who cares what he has to say I have not connection to that NPC. And the voice track of the division is SO repetitive and annoying. The NPC in the division is bland, boring, have no actual story to tell and no one cares for them. Not very RPGish.

    Inventory and Challenges SO in RPGs you meet bosses with different abilities, and must adapt and sometimes change your armor and weapon, and even spells to defeat them. You have to customize your character to beat the bosses. In witcher, you have a Bestiary that tells you the weakness and how to defeat certain bosses and monsters, from low level mobs to giants... You have to adapt and change spells and gear on the fly. But in the Division, Just SHOOT as many bullets as Possible that do the Most damage until you kill them. the only thing that changes in bosses in the division is Their Weapon and Name...sad and not very RPGish. We do not NEED to change our stats, bullet type, weapons, grenades, NOTHING needs to be changed on our character to actually Beat a boss or Mob. Why not make a Boss that can only take damage when Shocked... or On fire... etc... make US change on the fly our strategy and make the world feel more alive instead of just Bullet Sponge Enemies. The only time we might feel like we are playing more strategically is when shotgunners come out or Shield holders... that's it! Everyone else? JUST SHOOT! Boring. In witcher,, again, I find items that can change my stats completely and make a huge impact on my different stats, but in the Division, just equip whats Better and trash the rest. Don't hold on to anything since you will NEVER use it again, however, In witcher I am level 13 only and I am still keeping a level 5 sword, because it does poison, which is good agaisnt a certain type of beast. I have a reason to hold on to things as the world changes, and evolves, like an RPG should. Let's not even go into the SPACE available in RPGs to hold and keep your stuff compared to the Division.

    REALISM Rpgs have some sort of realism, most are in fantasy world so have spells and magical armor etc... but in the Division we have Skills (Spells) and Consumables (Potions) and Bullet Types (Enchantments). Which is pretty good I guess, they had to adapt to the real world, but in the real world, if you get shot 400 times in the head, you're dead, I don't care how much armor your have. Role playing games needs some sort of realism according to the world you are in. I hear the next patch will increase your HP or Armor or something... so in PVP we can have even more Running around in circles, shooting each other in the face 400 times! In witcher, again, when I meet a big boss monster, I run! I hide! I drink potions and read my bestiary to see what to do! I role play!... In the division? TAKE cover (if you need to) and shoot... how boring it that, not role playing there, not very RPGish.

    Anyways, look I can go on and on and Love RPGs and that is why I bought the Division, but sorry to tell you, it's not an RPG. It's a world full of same old sponge bullet bad guys with Division agents that all look the same (even their bodies) and civilians that are mostly slim and good looking... no fat people in NY?... only some of the Bosses are bigger, so they can Bullet Sponge? Here are some Ideas I would do to make it more RPG like:

    - A whole new Character Creating and BODY modifications: Fat, muscular, skinny, short, tall etc..
    - Make the world and damage more realistic, everything is easier to kill, including your character, so take cover! (Oh look, I am getting shot in the back, but instead of jumping behind cover or a car, i'll just keep running until they are tired of following me, it's ok, I have adamantium backpack?).
    - Make more stuff breakable and/or lootable (Garbage Cans, Car trunks, JTF crates, dead civilians, etc... everything lootable for credits, mats, gear etc
    - Make the vendors more realistic, make them move around their area or safe house. jesus, standing in one spot for 2 months will give you... well, death.
    - Give more life to important characters instead of civilians. The main characters are always in the same spot saying the same thing.
    - Everything in the game seems like a Trueman show. Same exact world every time I log in for a daily or just to play. Make some random civilians in the street be actual vendors roaming around, with random stuff to sell or trade.
    - EVERYTHING is tradable at all times anytime to anyone.(Realistic! and will keep more players online and create a community feeling in the safe houses).
    - Special bullets are NOT on a timer, instead you have to find EACH bullet, loot them. you 55 explosive bullets? well that's all you get to shoot if you equip them. (Like flaming arrows in RPGs).
    - Make bosses each have a different way of killing them and have them deal different type of damage and make each one have a Specific AI and way of fighting.
    - Make some bosses invincible to Bullets, and you need to use skills only or grenades only because they have a "Magnetic Shield" agaisnt bullets or do Magnetic blasts that disables guns from shooting. Give special abilities to bosses and not just different Weapon types. make some immune to explosions (bomb squad armor). Just be creative with every single mob type in the game.

    Anyway, you get the point of what I am saying? This game is NOT an RPG, it is a Meta-Game Shooter with NO actual class and very little rpg "elements' so they can call it an RPG/SHOOTER... Wrong, The Division, you are simply an CRAFTING/SHOOTER.

    For me, I am going back to the Witcher now to be immersed in a giant, ever changing world full of NPCs full of surprises. Bosses with special abilities who challenge me in different ways rather then just hide & shoot. A world full of Surprising Quests and Unique Characters at every corner, Vendors I can play cards with, hundred of different materials and blueprints. No maximum credit to gain and loot. Weapons and gear that each have their strong suit depending on my situation. Everything is lootable, and my horse can carry stuff for me too. Just thinking about RPGs like that makes the Division look like a Beta game, an empty world where the characters have not been scripted yet and the vanilla named bosses have not yet been given their abilities. If the Division IS an RPG to you... it's a very bland and boring one and you NEED to play more RPGs...

    Have fun!
    I know I will... on aWitcher 3, until 1.2 that is... hopefully, they save this disaster.
    If you want to get technical, The Division is an RPG more than an MMO. As Massive said, it's a RPG/Shooter game. There are all sorts of different types of RPG's out there, from in depth RPG's like Witcher 3 and Dragon Age, to the more light hearted RPG games. The thing that makes The Division stand out from other RPG's is that it is very much a "numbers based" RPG system, meaning that you can have a high DPS, but if your firearms are low, you're not going to do a lot of damage overall. As far as character creation, you can gear your character towards more of a DPS, Medic, Tech person......so I would definitely say that the Division is an RPG. It has all the characteristics of an RPG - sure it may not be as in depth of one for your tastes but it is an RPG, through and through. If all the RPG's that are out there followed your ideas as far as what makes the genre great to the letter, there'd be no variety and the games would not stand out from each other. The great RPG games follow a certain characteristic pattern, but they also do things a tad bit differently to stand out and say, "here's why we feel you should play this game over that game." I know many want to make the argument that this game is an MMO. Yes I haven't played many of those yet I still don't see this game being one. Destiny has more of an MMO feel to it than this one, in that in Destiny you can be on Earth, you could be doing the beginning mission or doing another mission there, and you could see a few people go by you, going about their business as well. Every game has mp now, so you can't really use that to back up the MMO argument. The Division is by and far an RPG/Shooter, and it is a "numbers based" type of RPG. It will be interesting to see what the next update to it will bring in terms of new content. God knows, while I still enjoy playing it (I have 3 maxed level characters), we all know it needs that new content sooner rather than later.
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  4. #4
    Whole lot of words. Not a lot of substance. It's a game guys. Try not to over think it and just enjoy it for what it is. Or don't, thats your choice.
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  5. #5
    Appearance is a very small part of what makes an rpg an rpg. It's mostly about character build (stats and gear) so yes it is an rpg. That wall of text you wrote just says it's not an rpg that you like.
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  6. #6
    It has some pretty heavy RPG elements. Levelling, xp, loot, gear, buffs, debuffs, heals, revives. Your character is never referred to by name either, so you can role play whoever you like. The character creator is wank, yes, but they still don't really force an identity onto you like they do in Fallout 4.
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  7. #7
    BigUrn's Avatar Senior Member
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    To be fair you do play a role, you are a agent. You play it and its a game so its what you make of it, if you don't like it don't play it
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  8. #8
    Let me break it down like this for you...

    The Division rode into town on the little yellow bus for RPG games.

    That pretty much sums it up.
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  9. #9
    xPLAY3R1x's Avatar Senior Member
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    Jun 2014
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    The Dvision is an RPG-Lite game.

    The biggest reason is there are no specialties, or specific builds you can choose because everything is interchangeable and you can change your "role" on the fly. Also, with the insane RNG, the game decides what build you make (or don't make), unfortunately.

    Real RPGs have specific builds and specialization a.k.a. Skill Trees you can advance to make the character a certain style e.g. ranged, stealth, tanky, etc. The Division offers none of this and is why every single build is currently DPS / Stamina. You can do Electronics, but you are at a severe disadvantage due to the SMG meta that relies on tanky health to be able to get up close and personal.
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  10. #10
    TG24915193's Avatar Banned
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    Mar 2015
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    Good Grief. Its a CO-OP FPS.
    It really isnt that hard a concept to grasp.
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