Why Is It That PVE Players ALWAYS Complain About Some Rewards Being In PVP Yet....... | Forums

[JiuJitsuMMA]

I do not care.

Link to a study which says 80-90% of all gamers do not PVP. Your other choice is stop fabricating statistics because you are mad that you got killed.

LOL, since I never fabricate statistics (and I never said "80%-90% of all gamers do not PvP") & you lack the skill on how to research it, here's sources & statistics from the link I previously provided:

sources below:

Games that do PvP 'right' have Factions vs. Factions:

Unlike the Division's Free-for-All Darkzone,
World of Warcraft also only has Factions vs. Factions PvP --on it's PvE servers, only in Battlegrounds/arena areas ..

on WoW PvP servers, PvP is on only in 'contested' areas & battlegrounds areas but any threat is is clearly marked as enemy faction
unlike
the Division's Dark Zone FFA (so WoW has no backstabbing, betrayal or ganking from same factions) ..
even
with this 'more fair' option, the PvE servers outnumber PvP by 2:1
Source: http://www.warcraftrealms.com/quickstats.php
&
https://realmpop.com/us.html

Unlike the Division's Darkzone Free-For-All PvP, StarWars The Old Republic MMO also only allows Factions vs Factions PvP on it's PvP servers & only in open-areas & warzones & enemy players are clearly marked as enemy factions (no backstabbing, betrayal or ganking from same faction) --
and even
limited to that, PvE servers outnumber PvP servers by 2:1 (PvE servers still have warzones for Faction vs. Faction battles)
Source: http://www.torstatus.net/

Other games such as Guild Wars 1 & 2, Blade & Soul, etc that have millions of players don't have separate PvP servers because they have only PvE servers with optional PvP in Factions vs Factions, arenas, battlegrounds, etc --there is no Free-for-All in PvE environments

I think the developers like the selling point of the added tension of betrayal & PKing
..but
that's catering to the 10%-20% PvP Free-for-All market
.. is
that enough for The Division to thrive or just survive?

I hope so
==
for the 'less than 5% of players post or read the forums' statistic, the number of views, members & posters is displayed on the forums --which is several thousand, which is less than 5% (more like 1%) of the 5-6 million players that bought the game (a software developer for Asheron's Call first pointed this out years ago & holds true for almost all games)

there were/are games that were like the Free-for-All PvP DarkZone in PvE areas with where you could be killed by anyone at anytime outside of safezones on their PvP-servers such as Everquest had about 24+ PvE servers ..
but only 4 servers were PvP-servers that were Free-for-All
--and
those 4 were combined later into just 1 PvP server because they saw massive population drops over time
(currently, there are about 23+ PvE servers but just 1 PvP server)
..source http://strategywiki.org/wiki/EverQuest/Servers ..it's down to under 100,000 players total with only 1 out of 23 servers being Free-for-All PvP server

Asheron's Call also had Free-for-All PvP servers where you could be killed by anyone at anytime (like the Darkzone) but with no safe zones. I played Asheron's extensively (no longer online) started off with about 20 PvE servers, about 4 PvP servers..
which
dwindled down to 5 PvE servers & 1 PvP server before I left (no longer online --I can't find the articles on the server population anymore (100,000+ players) but you could see the number of PvE & PvP servers everytime you logged in
..and it was always about a 5 to 8 PvE servers to 1 or 2 PvP servers ratio
.. it's dead
like Shadowbane, Darkfall, Dark Age Camelot Free-for-All, etc that have less than 1,000 to 3,000 playing

==
All the above & more came from this thread I posted on MMO statistics & their Histories
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...g-from-History

--

Update 2: many good discussions/posts in the later pages so here's a good highlight:

The ongoing Poll results here http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...s-Faction-Flag
have the same findings as previous exit polls
& surveys from other MMO-RPGs
&
show the majority (80% to 90% want Factions or PvP flag switch to prevent ganking, griefing) echo
one the best posts from related thread Statistics-History & why the majority here want a change for the better:

Originally Posted by RNGesusH8tsU View Post
They don't have to remove PVP....

Also, the thing that has been brought up time and time again and needs to be brought up one more is Rogues have the element of surprise and this is what wins fights 99.9% of the time

. Even if they are going against an equally geared opponent, the equally geared opponent never has time to react, or know a fight is coming.

On top of this, the loss of XP, DZ Rank --
even if it means only access to blue prints -- And credits (used to buy those blueprints) further alienates players who stand no chance and become human farming material for the overpowered Rogues.

Players are not afraid of other players in the DZ.

Players are afraid of losing TIME in the DZ.

People choose to invest their time in games to have fun. If they aren't having fun, they will quit playing... As evidenced by the mass exodus we've seen with this game over the last two months.

Yes, some of that is because there is nothing left to do for PVE (mostly PVE) players,
but
the reality is most people wouldn't mind the DZ if they didn't lose TIME when they went in there
since
time becomes a commodity as you get older and have more responsibilities that limit your game time.

Also, some of the players you have the unfortunate experience to meet in the DZ are in fact what amount to real life sociopaths and angry kids "raging" against the world.

These are the punks who kill you, call you racist and homophobic names and do jumping jacks over your body... When you had nothing of value for them to loot.

Mature people will not tolerate this kind of immature behavior and will just leave like the vast majority have.

I logged in on the PS4 today around 6:00 PM EST (3:00 PM PST), and there was literally ONE player in one of the LZ safe houses. ONE. I went to a couple of others (leveling an alt) and did not see anybody else for the entire hour I was in-game.

This is Saturday, where gamers are more likely have free time to game versus during the week.

The game is dying even on consoles regardless of what the fanboys like to parrot.

The point is while the game itself is a mess on so many levels... Literally and figuratively...

There comes a point where all of these problems come to a head (in the DZ) as I stated in my last post. Players become fed up with all of the problems and just leave the game.

A big part of this is the DZ in its current form and this is one of those things that needs to change SOMEHOW,
or
else there will not be anybody left for the first DLC in June.

[kellygreen45]

This is my point. When you have rewards which are earned for certain activities only (and 'earned' through achievement nor Xurned - seperate argument) then those people who aren't able to earn those rewards are always going to be vocal about missing out (issues with entitlement perhaps?) and with both Destiny and the Division the end-game PVE element seems 'easier' to complete and there is less of it the end-game PVP (not sure if easier is the word i want to use).

Where i think the Division is making people hurt is that the stuff you get from the DZ seem better or at least more useful to most players than that through PVE. Yes, CM mode will drop a 182 and the incursion has those armour sets, but the DZ has a wider selection of blueprints, DZ chests, loot drops, named bosses and (if you're so inclined) unsuspecting players running around carrying 9 HE items (maybe even the odd gearset item). Add to this crafting has got expensive, PVE'ers are feeling funnelled into a PVP area where they don't feel comfortable.

This is the first game i've experienced with the PVPVE style and generally i think it is an interesting experience, but i think balance is always going to be an issue and people don't want to feel like they at least can't compete (and only made worse with the use of exploits or hacking).

p.s. I'm a member of bnet too, so happy to go there.

Nice post...and good analysis.

The only thing I would add is: Carrot v. Stick.

Destiny has been largely successful (despite itself) because Bungie (after a fashion) learns from its mistakes, and sets up the loot system to REWARD you for playing parts of the game that they want you to play. If you play IB or ToO, you get exclusive, PVP oriented gear. If you raid....you get gear that largely helps you to do the raid. In Year ONe if you did PoEs, you got gear that helped ou to play better there.

Bungie motivates you by dangling a carrot.

Massive is trying to motivate you in this game by hitting you with a stick. If you don't play the parts fo the game that they want you to play....then they withhold necessary resources that you need in EVERY part of the game. Its not that PVE players resent PVP getting gear that they can't. Its that they RESENT being DENIED gear that they really want need FOR PVE....because they aren't playing PvP.

That's---at the end of the day----poor game design and its blowing up in Massive's face right now.

[Hellekeen]

Feel free to post any sources that say this. Even a single one. Make sure it applies to "all gamers", like your statement does, or at least specifically to The Division.

from another post in the same threat that is a repost from another post from another threat that is a repost .. a **** this.. Do your homework yoursefl. ok?


->
"LOL, since I never fabricate statistics (and I never said "80%-90% of all gamers do not PvP") & you lack the skill or intelligence on how to research it, here's sources & statistics from the link I previously provided:

sources below:

Games that do PvP 'right' have Factions vs. Factions:

Unlike the Division's Free-for-All Darkzone,
World of Warcraft also only has Factions vs. Factions PvP --on it's PvE servers, only in Battlegrounds/arena areas ..

on WoW PvP servers, PvP is on only in 'contested' areas & battlegrounds areas but any threat is is clearly marked as enemy faction
unlike
the Division's Dark Zone FFA (so WoW has no backstabbing, betrayal or ganking from same factions) ..
even
with this 'more fair' option, the PvE servers outnumber PvP by 2:1
Source: http://www.warcraftrealms.com/quickstats.php
&
https://realmpop.com/us.html

Unlike the Division's Darkzone Free-For-All PvP, StarWars The Old Republic MMO also only allows Factions vs Factions PvP on it's PvP servers & only in open-areas & warzones & enemy players are clearly marked as enemy factions (no backstabbing, betrayal or ganking from same faction) --
and even
limited to that, PvE servers outnumber PvP servers by 2:1 (PvE servers still have warzones for Faction vs. Faction battles)
Source: http://www.torstatus.net/

Other games such as Guild Wars 1 & 2, Blade & Soul, etc that have millions of players don't have separate PvP servers because they have only PvE servers with optional PvP in Factions vs Factions, arenas, battlegrounds, etc --there is no Free-for-All in PvE environments

I think the developers like the selling point of the added tension of betrayal & PKing
..but
that's catering to the 10%-20% PvP Free-for-All market
.. is
that enough for The Division to thrive or just survive?

I hope so
==
for the 'less than 5% of players post or read the forums' statistic, the number of views, members & posters is displayed on the forums --which is several thousand, which is less than 5% (more like 1%) of the 5-6 million players that bought the game (a software developer for Asheron's Call first pointed this out years ago & holds true for almost all games)

there were/are games that were like the Free-for-All PvP DarkZone in PvE areas with where you could be killed by anyone at anytime outside of safezones on their PvP-servers such as Everquest had about 24+ PvE servers ..
but only 4 servers were PvP-servers that were Free-for-All
--and
those 4 were combined later into just 1 PvP server because they saw massive population drops over time
(currently, there are about 23+ PvE servers but just 1 PvP server)
..source http://strategywiki.org/wiki/EverQuest/Servers ..it's down to under 100,000 players total with only 1 out of 23 servers being Free-for-All PvP server

Asheron's Call also had Free-for-All PvP servers where you could be killed by anyone at anytime (like the Darkzone) but with no safe zones. I played Asheron's extensively (no longer online) started off with about 20 PvE servers, about 4 PvP servers..
which
dwindled down to 5 PvE servers & 1 PvP server before I left (no longer online --I can't find the articles on the server population anymore (100,000+ players) but you could see the number of PvE & PvP servers everytime you logged in
..and it was always about a 5 to 8 PvE servers to 1 or 2 PvP servers ratio
.. it's dead
like Shadowbane, Darkfall, Dark Age Camelot Free-for-All, etc that have less than 1,000 to 3,000 playing

==
All the above & more came from this thread I posted on MMO statistics & their Histories
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...g-from-History

--

Update 2: many good discussions/posts in the later pages so here's a good highlight:

The ongoing Poll results here http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...s-Faction-Flag
have the same findings as previous exit polls
& surveys from other MMO-RPGs
&
show the majority (80% to 90% want Factions or PvP flag switch to prevent ganking, griefing)



here you go..i felt free to copy paste it from an existing post .. which is a repost from another existing post..- which is the short research with google, (who is always your friend unless your WANT to disbelieve) see just because you close your eyes and scream "LALALALALALALAL" doesnt make the facts go away.. =) so next time you feel like sreading "but the soruces" - ******** make sure you dont embarass yourself. and did your homework..

[Hellekeen]

btw why is it that mostly PvP brats are whining and wildly defending their "game mode" to the blood and to the point of sheer denial? is it the elitism that comes with it? its still a game , and noone gives you 0.1% discount because your Kd is above 1..or 2 or 12 , or whatever.. its just UNimportant if your are "gud" at PvP.. see ? noone cares =)

[JerginsSoft]

you rarely if ever see PVP players complain about some rewards being locked behind PVE content? This happens in every game that includes gear seperated between PVE and PVP. The most obvious other example is Destiny in which their fanbase is still griping that some weapons and challenges are PVP only.

I see an awful lot of PVE players complaining that some blueprints are accessible only in the DZ yet they never care about the fact that the only way to get the best Armor is through PVE content such as the Incusion

PVP players seem to be fine playing the entire game, including PVE, in order to get the gear they want so why is it so hard for PVE players to do the same?

I know you're so hardcore that you're probably not aware of this fact, but, pvp players have a much easier time going back and forth between the two modes.

In an incursion, if you fail, you don't lose xp, money and the loot you just picked up from Lexington.

In the DZ, you have hardcore super uber pvp gamers, who are the untouchable pinnacle of the superior game mode, who take pride in crushing the lowly, plebian bottom feeding scum that is pve, for no other reason than to deservingly rob them of their gear, xp, keys, money, shoes, lunches, puppies and self esteem.

Please help people who don't enjoy pvp become gaming gods... just like you!

We need to know how to play properly. Everyone who doesn't like to get ganked in the DZ when looking to get better gear just needs to man up and GITGUD (tm). I hope your classes start soon... we're eager to learn!

[PlayingOnMySofa]

........i must be playing a different game since i think they are lackluster on both sides...... drops suck in general, most people resort to blueprints, and give the almighty RNG a spin.....

[M0J033]

........i must be playing a different game since i think they are lackluster on both sides...... drops suck in general, most people resort to blueprints, and give the almighty RNG a spin.....

Everybody wants what everyone else has, because they assume it must be better.

Unfortunately, the reality is that it is not.

There is very little end game content all around, both in the DZ and out, and it is all very repetitive. Complaining that someone else has a bigger piece of the pie, and expecting the devs to give you a piece of their pie isn't going to solve the problem.

We ALL need more pie.

[Karamasov445]

Everybody wants what everyone else has, because they assume it must be better.

Unfortunately, the reality is that it is not.

There is very little end game content all around, both in the DZ and out, and it is all very repetitive. Complaining that someone else has a bigger piece of the pie, and expecting the devs to give you a piece of their pie isn't going to solve the problem.

We ALL need more pie.

Fun fact is you right.

But for me, i want the weapons blueprint in the boo rotated like in the dz not because of the gs score or the power. Just because i want more choices in the gun i can use with the talent i want. So if a day i want use let say a tactical ACR (it just an example) with the talent fit my build i MUST "play" in the low ganking haven they call pvp for buy the blueprint.

I think many people complain about that if you stick on the pve you can't use what you want like you want. The only way to do it is to go in the dz because that the only way to have access to rotating blueprint.

[Three Snowshoes]

Everybody wants what everyone else has, because they assume it must be better.

Unfortunately, the reality is that it is not.

There is very little end game content all around, both in the DZ and out, and it is all very repetitive. Complaining that someone else has a bigger piece of the pie, and expecting the devs to give you a piece of their pie isn't going to solve the problem.

We ALL need more pie.

More pie? I'd like ANY pie. All Ubi threw at me was the f'ing crust. The crust, although part of a pie, does not constitute PIE.

[M0J033]

More pie? I'd like ANY pie. All Ubi threw at me was the f'ing crust. The crust, although part of a pie, does not constitute PIE.

Did you not get PvE missions to level 30?

Is that not pie? (it is)

Do you not have both hard and challenging story missions, and an Incursion?

That also is pie.

You DO have pie (admittedly, it's not great, but it IS something), you just don't like the pie that you currently have, and that's the point: NOBODY is happy with their pie right now. Sure, other people's pie might look better than your's but, trust me, it is the same day-old, stale pie that everyone has.

Instead of asking for a piece of other people's pie, everyone SHOULD be asking for better (and more) pie for themselves, and leave other people's pie alone.

If we ALL had plenty of pie, then we'd all be satisfied, and we wouldn't be so concerned with the pie that the other people have.

(All this talk of pie is making me hungry)