Please, STOP forcing People with exclusive equip into Darkzone if they don't want it. | Forums

[R4ntor]

No, you're failing to make any type of valid point to start with. Yeah, this game is all about improving your gear, but you're just made because you don't want to progress to get the gear. You found a section of the game you don't agree with, one that was advertised to be this way for well over a year prior to launch, and now you want them to change the entire purpose of a zone just so you can have gear that is in no means a necessity for game progression. 200+ GS gear drops from the PvE zones just like they do from the PvP zone. The only difference is that you don't get the blueprints. The whole purpose of the DZ was it being a place that held the best gear possible, but had a extreme risk involved with getting them. Honestly, you knew that you couldn't get the best gear possible in the game from the start, you're just pissed off now because it's too difficult for you. Sorry, but they aren't going to just hand you free BiS gear just cause you don't want to play the game.

The only person forcing anything on you is yourself. If you don't want to play the game to progress, be happy with what you have. It's not the best gear in the game, but it's more than enough to complete anything in the PvE zone. You still have the chances to have the same GS level gear in the PvE zone, so don't fret too much. Just means you have to work for it.

First, you don't know anything about my ingame state, so don't waste time on speculations. Actually i did a lot of Darkzone and have quite a bunch of the blueprints, that much about `to difficult for me'.
For real, it is not difficult at all for anyone, every idiot can do the Darkzone grind. Switch of your brain, ignore any griefing and cheating that is going on in there and keep on grinding.

Second, i didn't enjoy the time in there at all. Its just a boring grind with occasional happening, from the system encouraged and rewarded griefplay that you easily can just ignore. Its just annoying, not more difficult by any means than anything else in this game.

Third, that exactly is why it doesn't even deseve any better or exclusive loot than any other activity in the game. You don't deserve any better loot for something as easy like this. If it was pure about difficulty, they would be way better of placing those rewards to challanging Incursions only, what is by far more difficult to beat than the simple and just boring Darkzone grind.

From you, i just get the impression that you are pissed of that people dare to demand freedom in their choice wich part of the game they prefer to play. And that you would be even more pissed if they dare to get similar quality loot there like you in your beloved Darkzone. Why is that? Panik someone who dislikes your favorite part of the game could still make the same progress?

Honestly, it is you who doesn't make any other point than selfish behavior. So don't even try to talk that on others.
I don't mind at all, if the Darkzone offers access to the same rewards like other equal difficult activities in the game.

[Fazemlidaiya]

No you can't.

Even the devs themselves admit to this oversight. That there is NO where in the game you can go where you can RELIABLY obtain weapons---as drops-----above GS 182. The DZ will sometimes drop them. CM dailies....not at all.

I've had FOUR GS 191 Striker's gloves drop for me from running the CM daily missions. I've not received ONE GS 204 weapon. Infact, I've only recived only about 3 or 4 GS 182 weapons in the month since Patch 1.1 dropped. Not a single GS 200 weapon. Not a single named weapon. (Hell I had two of those drop farming HARD mode missions before patch 1.1)

The game design is broken...and the game's loot system is the most broken I've EVER seen in a game of this type.

There is NOT equal access to gear on both sides.

DZ players have access to GS 204 HE armor drops...and blueprints. PVE only players do not.

DZ players have access to GS 204 HE weapon drops, vendor iterms and blue prints. PVE players only have access to ONE GS 204 weapon per week. One that priced so that buying it takes up all the PCs you can reasonably earn that week.

If there were---truly---equal access to gear, people would NOT be here complaining.

...and this game would not be in the flat spin it is in right now.

I was referring to post 1.2. They stated we will see a LOT more 204 weapon drops in Challenge Modes, and that includes Storyline so you don;t even have to do the Incursions to get hold of them. And since there is NO GS cap increase, that makes it a lot better on everyone.

[RefugeAssassin]

My rebuttal was a response to his claim that everyone can access all equipment regardless their chosen game play method. This is not the case -- 204 weapon blue prints (the highest available in the game at this time) can only be purchased from DZ after grinding to DZ rank 75+. Blue prints do not drop randomly, so this insures that DZ will be their only available source.

I understand that, but his post is still valid, you dont have to actively engage in PVP while your in the DZ. 90% of the people in there are actively farming NPC's to level and get DZ funds and could care less that your in there as long as you arent trying to kill them. The other 10% are trying to kill whatever moves, thats just a understood risk of going in there.

[kellygreen45]

Uh, Vanilla Diablo 3 would like a word with you.



I don't know what loot drops you think are going on in the DZ but in 77 levels of griding ive yet to see ANYTHING drop that was over 18something with the exception of 2 pairs of Nomad gloves, of which one was taken from me before I could even extract. As for the the weekly 204's offered in the BOO, you can grind those 800+ PC in like 4 hours tops running Lexington challenging, so that is hardly a weeks worth of grinding. If you are only doing the dailies and logging off, well thats on you.

Trust me. As a Vanilla Diablo 3 player on PC....that game had PLENTY of words with me. NONE OF THEM good. But I stand by what I said. As much of a broken, disappointment pre-Reaper of Souls D3 was.

This game is worse....and even MORE broken. The lone saving grace of this game is that Massive didn't try to reinvent the Wheel with RMAH as well.

The drops in the DZ of 200+ gear are EXTREMELY rare---cause the loot system is ****ING broken----but outside of the DZ (and the Incursions) they don't happen AT all.

The highest level weapon drop you can get in PVE only play is 182.

The higher armor drop outside of the incursions is 191...and that's only the GS gloves.

(and of the course the game is set up so that you can only ever get THREE of any of the armor sets unless you're willing to grind the Incursion).

...and the set of equivalent power is (once again) only obtainable in the DZ.


This entire debate is a red-herring. I have NOTHING against the DZ. Its not my thing...but I have nothing against the people who enjoy it and want to play the game this way.

I have a HUGE problem with the massive, arbitrary progression walls that Massive has thrown up at EVERY turn in this game.

[Kyosji]

Sorry. No dice.

What the devs actually advertised (prior to launch). Is that the DZ would be the FASTEST way to the games best gear...and that there would be OTHER---if SLOWER---ways to equivalent gear for those players who chose not to play in the DZ.

Massive has failed---spectactularly-----to deliver on that promise. Just like they failed to deliver on the promise of a game where "all play styles----including solo----are equally viable.".

I want a GS 204 Tactical ACR. There is NO WAY I can get that form the game through PVE only play. NONE.

I want a GS 204 M-60. There is NO WAY I can get that from the game through PVE only play. NONE.

I could go down the LAUNDRY LIST of gear that is---right now----ONLY obtainable thorugh DZ play. But I think I've made my point.

Not only has Massive failed to deliver on what is standard game design practice for this kind of game, they have failed to deliver on what they SPECIFICALLY stated the game would offer.

ALL you are hearing is people demanding that Massive deliver what they promised.

...No, it was the place where the best loot and gear dropped.

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I've never seen what you've described, so if you can provide some official video or statement you can link, I'd love to read it. Until then, you're just stating your own opinions as facts with no proof to give it footing.

Also, can you provide some proof that those guns have no way to drop? I'm not saying they do or don't, but you really haven't provided evidence on it except for your word.

[kellygreen45]

I was referring to post 1.2. They stated we will see a LOT more 204 weapon drops in Challenge Modes, and that includes Storyline so you don;t even have to do the Incursions to get hold of them. And since there is NO GS cap increase, that makes it a lot better on everyone.

They also stated we'd see a much better loot system in patch 1.1.

Given Massive's habit of over-promising, and under-delivering, you'll have to just accept my skepticism...and unwillingness to accept any of this as fait accompli.

[L0BANE]

I have a HUGE problem with 2/3s of the games best gear and ALL of its best weapons being locked behind the DZ walls for NO other reason than to pressure players into the playing the DZ.

I agree with your underlying message, but I think you're overstating the problem to some degree. I've obtained my set pieces through the incursion (PVE) and carry 2 primary 204 weapons (BoO purchases) as well as a GS 182 side arm (BoO recipe). Now not all of my set pieces are 240, so I'm not technically maxed, but I'm getting darn close. And none of it came from the DZ.

Does the DZ currently have a wider selection of high end weapons? Yes, and they need to address that. But I also have started leveling in the DZ, and I want to have incentive to do so. I do not want the exact same gear rewards for the end of that slog as I earned at the end of the PVE slog.

What I mean by that is I can see having say the AUG available at the BoO, and the MP5 in the DZ. The weapons are roughly equal, and it comes down more to player choice. Yes, it sucks if you love the MP5 and don't want to play the DZ, but in this instance at least both sides would have access to 'equivalent' level of gear while still preserving the motivation for people like me that play both PVE and PVP to feel like both avenues offer their own rewards.

[Kyosji]

It contradicts your statement that PVP players invest more time into the game, just that.

Depends on how you look at it. I fyou refuse to play the other aspects of the game like we do, then yes, we spend more time in the game when you are spending yours building your own progression wall because you don't want to take part in the rest of the game.

[Fazemlidaiya]

I think his point is you can go into the DZ and grind NPC's without actively engaging in PVP, however at some point the PVP will find you but personally i was able to outlevel the XP I lost from deaths by NPC farming in groups so it is doable, its just a time sink.

Yeah I managed to get to DZ rank 85 so far and I have MAYBE died 10 times during that time to Rogues. Most of my deaths were to NPCs because I wasn't not paying attention or had a sudden cat hop on my lap mid-fight LOL. I sometimes hear of people posting, saying "I can;t play DZ because I die every time I leave the check-point" - and I have to wonder who the hell they pissed off to get such rage on them. Now, yes, sometimes Rogues DO cam a checkpoint - ESPECIALLY the one near the DZ-03 safehouse. But since you can fast-travel to ANY checkpoint, and there are 13 checkpoints, plus 6 DZ Entrances, which gives a total of 19 ways to enter the DZ ... so if I see a checkpoint being camped, I just go somewhere else and enter.

[Yhasper]

I understand that, but his post is still valid, you dont have to actively engage in PVP while your in the DZ. 90% of the people in there are actively farming NPC's to level and get DZ funds and could care less that your in there as long as you arent trying to kill them. The other 10% are trying to kill whatever moves, thats just a understood risk of going in there.

Unfortunately your 10% are my 90%. From my experience it's rather 90% of the players I encounter that will shoot on sight. My bad, I guess.