1. #1
    Hi Oleg

    We had few discussions in our squad about how to boost turn rate in a fight. One issue was the elevator trim position while in a turn.

    Question: In the FB flight models, does elevator trim has an influence on turn rate? If I trim the aircraft to fly straight and level at say 500 kph in LA7, does it limt the maximum "pull up" input from the Joystick? Is there a difference between various Joysticks? with or without force feedback?

    What do you guys know about the issue from real WW2 veterans? did they change trim settings in a turning fight?

    My opinion about the subject: What I learned to do in real PPL course is that you dont change trim settings in a temporary manouver. I was told there that the elevator trim is not a control device, it's purpose is to let the pilot to fly comfortly in various flight situations and airspeed without struggeling with the aerodynamic forces that screen back to he's stick. I think it should not have influance on turn rate because:
    in Real World, you never reach maximum elevator deflection, You will stall or exceed stractual limit way before maximum deflection. In addition, in "pull up", you apply pressure, you dont move the stick/column. The resistance of the stick is relative to the airspeed, so when the speed decreases (like in a tight turn) you can pull up further because there is less resistance.

    What is the game makers policy about the subject? how much does it similar to Real World (ofcourse, considering the limitations of PC simulation and game joysticks)??

    Waiting for your reply,
    IDF_Baruchi
    Training guide,
    IDF_Squadron

    [This message was edited by IDF_Baruchi on Thu March 25 2004 at 03:52 AM.]

    [This message was edited by IDF_Baruchi on Thu March 25 2004 at 03:59 AM.]
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  2. #2
    Hi Oleg

    We had few discussions in our squad about how to boost turn rate in a fight. One issue was the elevator trim position while in a turn.

    Question: In the FB flight models, does elevator trim has an influence on turn rate? If I trim the aircraft to fly straight and level at say 500 kph in LA7, does it limt the maximum "pull up" input from the Joystick? Is there a difference between various Joysticks? with or without force feedback?

    What do you guys know about the issue from real WW2 veterans? did they change trim settings in a turning fight?

    My opinion about the subject: What I learned to do in real PPL course is that you dont change trim settings in a temporary manouver. I was told there that the elevator trim is not a control device, it's purpose is to let the pilot to fly comfortly in various flight situations and airspeed without struggeling with the aerodynamic forces that screen back to he's stick. I think it should not have influance on turn rate because:
    in Real World, you never reach maximum elevator deflection, You will stall or exceed stractual limit way before maximum deflection. In addition, in "pull up", you apply pressure, you dont move the stick/column. The resistance of the stick is relative to the airspeed, so when the speed decreases (like in a tight turn) you can pull up further because there is less resistance.

    What is the game makers policy about the subject? how much does it similar to Real World (ofcourse, considering the limitations of PC simulation and game joysticks)??

    Waiting for your reply,
    IDF_Baruchi
    Training guide,
    IDF_Squadron

    [This message was edited by IDF_Baruchi on Thu March 25 2004 at 03:52 AM.]

    [This message was edited by IDF_Baruchi on Thu March 25 2004 at 03:59 AM.]
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  3. #3
    Trim can't be modelled accurately in a sim. In real life you use the control column to fly level and straight and trim away the forces. In the sim you do the exact opposite. You leave the control in centre and start trimming to fly level and straight. Ofcourse, this all implies that trim isn't accurately modelled to begin with in FB. Trim can't be accurately modelled in any sim.

    And sure, you can boost your turn rate with trim in FB, like you can also boost your roll rate with trim in FB.


    (I took some of your words here
    In FB in "pullup", you apply pressure, you actually move the stick/column. The resistance of the stick is relative to the airspeed and the amount of trim applied. So when the speed increases but as long as you have enough elevator trim applied, you can pull up further because there is less resistance.

    Don't know what the game makers policy is about the subject. Seems to me they just wanted to put it in as a gimmick. They coulda just left it out and let all planes fly in trim automatically. Adding unrealistic trim adds nothing to the game but an unnescessary control to fiddle with. It's like adding a disfunctional gauge to an instrument panel. It's nice it's there but it has no realistic value.
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  4. #4
    Hey Dnmy thanks for your reply
    So now I understand that Its a sim problem not a