1. #21
    Originally Posted by o Twistedl o Go to original post
    No.

    Why?

    There are plenty of strategies already that allow you to deal a lot of status elements and even a decent amount of damage to the enemy without going rogue, if this was implemented it'd be even worse.

    Players would be able to finish each other off without going rogue as well if this were the case.
    How would it be even worse if the damage threshold was increased?

    Give us an example of the last sentence in your paragraph.

    @Estensis - "It's not fair. And?", seriously....wow...
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  2. #22
    SgtDmX's Avatar Member
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    I still believe there should be a zero-tolerance to damaging other agents. We're all agents - we shouldn't be hurting eachother. Not even a little. It would pretty much solve the baiting/harrassment issue. It would require you to aim and shoot carefully, and not throw grenades around like candy. If you shoot through a group of friendlies to hit a rogue in the distance, and one bullet hit a friendly, it was your fault - you should be punished.

    I see only 1-2 issues to this, but one of them I'm not even going to explain again (jumping in front of other players), because people obviously don't want to listen. The other is the turret, but since that was such an obvious issue, and everyone agree, I'm sure it will be fixed.

    Originally Posted by Label07 Go to original post
    How would it be even worse if the damage threshold was increased?

    Give us an example
    Example 1:
    Player 1 is fighting 5 NPC's and is taking fire from all of them.
    In comes Player 2 and shoot P1 for 32% of his total health.
    NPC's finish P1 off due to his much lower health.
    P2 runs off laughing, and receive no consequence, and can run off to another player and repeat the process.

    Example 2:
    A group of 4 non-hostile agents (G1) is fighting a group of 4 rogue agents (G2).
    In comes a solo non-hostile agent and begins to shoot carefully at members of G1,
    so as not to damage them more than 32% of their health.
    G1 cannot fire back at the solo non-hostile, because then they would go rogue.
    G2 defeat G1, because G1 all had lower health, thanks to the solo non-hostile.
    G2 won the battle (as rogues) thanks to a non-hostile player, and the non-hostile player received no consequence.

    There can even be more non-hostiles shooting at the non-hostile group of players,
    to defend the rogue-group without going rogue themselves. Since max group size is 4, expect this to happen.

    That's just 2 scenarios that can, and will happen, if the threshold is increased.
    Want more?
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  3. #23
    Simple solution? Watch your daggone fire.
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  4. #24
    Originally Posted by SgtDmX Go to original post
    I still believe there should be a zero-tolerance to damaging other agents. We're all agents - we shouldn't be hurting eachother. Not even a little. It would pretty much solve the baiting/harrassment issue. It would require you to aim and shoot carefully, and not throw grenades around like candy. If you shoot through a group of friendlies to hit a rogue in the distance, and one bullet hit a friendly, it was your fault - you should be punished.

    I see only 1-2 issues to this, but one of them I'm not even going to explain again (jumping in front of other players), because people obviously don't want to listen. The other is the turret, but since that was such an obvious issue, and everyone agree, I'm sure it will be fixed.



    Example 1:
    Player 1 is fighting 5 NPC's and is taking fire from all of them.
    In comes Player 2 and shoot P1 for 32% of his total health.
    NPC's finish P1 off due to his much lower health.
    P2 runs off laughing, and receive no consequence, and can run off to another player and repeat the process.

    Example 2:
    A group of 4 non-hostile agents (G1) is fighting a group of 4 rogue agents (G2).
    In comes a solo non-hostile agent and begins to shoot carefully at members of G1,
    so as not to damage them more than 32% of their health.
    G1 cannot fire back at the solo non-hostile, because then they would go rogue.
    G2 defeat G1, because G1 all had lower health, thanks to the solo non-hostile.
    G2 won the battle (as rogues) thanks to a non-hostile player, and the non-hostile player received no consequence.

    There can even be more non-hostiles shooting at the non-hostile group of players,
    to defend the rogue-group without going rogue themselves. Since max group size is 4, expect this to happen.

    That's just 2 scenarios that can, and will happen, if the threshold is increased.
    Want more?
    Those two scenarios are fine. I get your point. I revised my main post as it seems people are getting confused. The whole point is work through the issue of accidental rogues. Let's be clear here, THIS IS A GAME, GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN, accidentally going rogue and getting destroyed in return for making a mistake is NOT fun. If I get the rogue status it needs to be because I chose to. In response to the grenade example, most grenades will do more than a bar of HP so they would be rogue anyway, yes people shouldn't throw them "like candy" there could be consequences.
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  5. #25
    Off topic: Can a mod change the title of this thread to:

    "The FIX to ACCIDENTALLY going ROGUE!"

    If possible TYVM
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  6. #26
    This is a horrible idea, and would cause even further baiting and abuse of the system in place. Why on earth would you want to allow potential rogues to basically down low health players with little to no repercussions? So we can basically kill someone and presto only an 18 second timer that if you die during you only lose 10% DZ credits, awful idea OP.

    The current system is fine, 20% or more and bam instant rogue don't like it watch your fire with more powerful damage per shot weapons and don't frivolously throw grenades or explosive abilities all over the place when neutral agents are near by.
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  7. #27
    UbiInsulin's Avatar Community Manager
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    Originally Posted by Label07 Go to original post
    Off topic: Can a mod change the title of this thread to:

    "The Fix to ACCIDENTALLY going ROGUE!"

    If possible TYVM
    No prob!
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  8. #28
    Originally Posted by MrFuddyDuddy Go to original post
    This is a horrible idea, and would cause even further baiting and abuse of the system in place. Why on earth would you want to allow potential rogues to basically down low health players with little to no repercussions? So we can basically kill someone and presto only an 18 second timer that if you die during you only lose 10% DZ credits, awful idea OP.

    The current system is fine, 20% or more and bam instant rogue don't like it watch your fire with more powerful damage per shot weapons and don't frivolously throw grenades or explosive abilities all over the place when neutral agents are near by.
    Read updated main post, covered this. When I say Rogue1 I'm talking about the 90sec (atm) timer. The 15sec timer is after the 33% dmg I suggested.
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  9. #29
    Giralus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Label07 Go to original post
    I always see other members on any forum shooting down ideas but don't see much of "this should be done instead". I would like to see others add their ideas/fixes to the current model. You are also contriving hypothetical situations.

    While we are using hypotheticals...; If someone wants to "pot shot" me until I lose 33% I will let them until they go Rogue, I use a medkit/heal ability then attempt to kill them, I make more than would have from killing me.

    here is the easiest fix for accidental rogue that changes nothing about the game play at all:

    On AR's,SMG's,LMG's weapons the first 5 bullets do No damage to the other player , its a small leeway zone , if you hit them with a 6TH or more bullets within 5 seconds of the first 5 bullets you go Rogue .

    reasons for this set up :

    1) Sniper,Shotgun and Handgun = if you are accidentally shooting people with these than you deserve to go rogue , sure accidents happen with them BUT very rarely.

    2) the player you are shooting takes NO damage so they are less likely to instantly fire back because their Health dropped.

    3) you should be controlling your fire, if you are spraying and hit someone who accidentally or purposefully crosses your path you have a little leeway to stop firing if you don't want to go rogue.

    The Developers simple add a Note on AR's,SMG's,LMG's ....*this gun will initiate Rogue status if more than 5 shots land on a player , if another shot hits that player within 5 seconds you will go rogue ( and players can Toggle this note OFF and never see it again once they learn how the system works )

    The Developers put a Note on Sniper/Shotgun/Handguns.....*one shot from this weapon initiates Rogue status...... ( and the Note is toggle-able, so players can turn it off and never have to see it on any guns once they learn how to play )

    The above is a very simple,easy solution that changes absolutely nothing about the game play at all, if you Want to go Rogue simply shoot the person with a Sniper,Pistol,Shotgun1 time or more OR shoot them with a AR,SMG,LMG 6 or more times

    grenades,bombs,etc will also follow the "if you damage a person at all you will go rogue" so if there are people around use them carefully or not at all.
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  10. #30
    SgtDmX's Avatar Member
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    @Giralus - I like the idea as long as you are able to turn this off, so that the first bullet does do damage if you want to. If you want to kill another player, you shouldn't have to waste bullets before being able to deal damage. Having to waste 5 out of 20 bullets is a pretty big deal. Also, shooting players with bullets that do 0 damage is very unrealistic, but for the sake of game balance and fairness, I'd rather have this than ignoring the issue we seem to have.

    Heavy-hitting weapons is actually the biggest issue with this sort of behaviour,
    because they are the weapons that can make you go rogue in 1-2 hits, giving you a much lower chance to react to it.
    If you're peeking around a corner with a sniper, a player can jump through you, into your FOV, just as you fire your rifle.
    One bullet is all it takes, and no one can say you will be able to avoid this at all times, with situational awareness.
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