1. #1

    THE FIX to (accidentally) going ROGUE, so easy a codeman could do it!

    I had a thought that easily alleviates the current accidentally going Rogue problem we had with both betas. Many groups would accidentally go rogue by either shooting NPC or at Rogue players.

    I know the game comes out in just under 2 weeks and unless they have already fixed the current issues most of us have with the DZ it will continue to be an issue. If some of these thought out systems were to be implemented it could take weeks/months to be patched. The SIMPLE QUICK FIX is this:

    CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF DAMAGE REQUIRED FOR A PLAYER/GROUP TO GO ROGUE TO 1 BAR OF HP (33%)

    How does this fix the problem? No more accidentally hitting another player twice and going Rogue for 15sec (an eternity once people start shooting at you) If someone shoots/grenades another player for damage equal to the amount I stated above THEY MEANT TO GO ROGUE. 1 bar is also easily healable via a Medkit so even the person taking fire can pop a medkit to heal up and defend themselves.

    THIS IS THE SIMPLEST AND QUICKEST WAY TO FIX THE CURRENT ACCIDENTAL ROGUE DZ PROBLEM! It would just be changing some numbers around on the backend.

    **edit#1: If you down someone that has very little HP, if they are not revived, you automatically go to Rogue1 and well as the person/party that finished them off. If AI finishes them, you are SoL and Rogue1 still applies. That fair? (no pre-rogue status for the down otherwise you could not attempt to revive them). I think some are not understanding this, it's meant to be oops made a mistake and down that guy, let me get him back up (if an accident). If you are under the 15sec starting (pre-killing) rogue timer YOU CAN'T REVIVE THEM.

    Guess I have to flesh this out a bit more as it seems people are becoming confused:
    1) The 33% marker is for any HP amount, e.g. If a player has 34% HP and someone pushes them down to 1% that player/group goes rogue.
    2) If a person has 32% HP and a player pushes them to a downed state that person, that player/group should go into a warning status. if the person that is downed is not revived, the player/group that downed them goes rogue. (if a person/group is rogue they cannot revive non-group players...FYI)
    3) If a another player/group finishes the downed player off, any involved parties are now Rogue1 (if were non-rogue status).
    4) If a player has low HP (lets say 5%) from fighting AI and another player puts a few shots into them (4% dmg), the shot player goes down from AI, same as prior (#3) applies, the player/group that shot the other player is in warning status until the downed player is revived, if not revived...guess what...Rogue1.

    **edit#2: The 33% marker I have suggested should also be a culmulative for a player/group over a period of time say 30sec (time subjective to change, would need to be played with by the devs). So if a player/group thinks they are going to troll you (as some users on this forum have suggested) they can only do so every 30sec (or w/e). What this means is if they don't surpass the threshold and your HP regens to full then they try to push you back down to close to losing that bar again within that 30sec and in that time surpass 33% HP dmg done, that player/group goes Rogue+1

    **edit#3: The subject of players exploiting explosion(s) by standing in the aoe and intentionally taking dmg to make the player/group that shot/threw the ordinance go Rogue(15sec atm - if surpassing 33% in my model). The only way to circumvent this I can think of is if the grenade also hits a NPC or Rogue player then the dmg done to the non-rogue is forgiven and does not cause the player/group that fired/threw the ordinance to go Rogue(15sec). However, if that explosive downed the non-rogue player, (see #3 above) if not revived that player/group that downed the non-rogue player now goes Rogue+1. Fair?

    **edit#4: Turrets. I've heard rumors this will be fixed by the time the main game releases, good news. I can still see people exploiting these when someone throws them down with the intention for the turret to shoot NPC/Rogue players. I foresee players/groups standing in front of the turret to intentionally take shots to make the player that owns the turret go rogue. To fix: Have the turret stop firing once a non-rogue agent is in front of it and/or pick a new target to fire at. Also; if you have ever played a game where if you aim at an NPC and pull the trigger the game will not let you fire which prevents friendly fire, the turret could do that as well (either/or fixes the issue)


    ***Post a reply if you would like this implemented short term until a better system can be patched in. This is a fair solution?
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  2. #2
    sandpants's Avatar Senior Member
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    All it does is let people put you to a lower health state before going Rogue. It puts the victim at a huge disadvantage if he decides to defend himself. Either he has to use skills and medkits to recover HP before engaging putting these on a cooldown, or be forced to start a an encounter with another player at 2/3rds of his HP compared to the other guy.

    I just think the initial timer should start at 5 seconds, and go up at 5s for each bullet hit until you get Rank 1 Rogue, even if it comes before killing someone.
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  3. #3
    The problem with this is you are opening the door further to the other supposed 'problem', baiting. Now if someone is taking potshots at you they are safe until 1/3 of your bar is missing, if you are dumb enough to stick around through this even if you don't fire back, if the other guy oversteps and turns rogue he has such an advantage over you that you may as well be handing him the kill, you have handed him too much of an advantage.

    If you do have enough and fire back before he turns you are similarly screwed but as a rogue.
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  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by sandpants Go to original post
    All it does is let people put you to a lower health state before going Rogue. It puts the victim at a huge disadvantage if he decides to defend himself. Either he has to use skills and medkits to recover HP before engaging putting these on a cooldown, or be forced to start a an encounter with another player at 2/3rds of his HP compared to the other guy.

    I just think the initial timer should start at 5 seconds, and go up at 5s for each bullet hit.
    I don't agree. If the "per-hit" system were implemented there would be accidental rogues everywhere and it would be even worse than the timer pause we currently have. There are medkits assuming the person has one as well as the heal ability (and specialized ability in full game). Assuming you had played a lot of DZ in the beta(s) you know accidental rogue happens ALL THE TIME, my idea alleviates that.

    If a player shoots/explodes away 33% (1 bar) of a players HP it is obviously intentional.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Anglisc449 Go to original post
    The problem with this is you are opening the door further to the other supposed 'problem', baiting. Now if someone is taking potshots at you they are safe until 1/3 of your bar is missing, if you are dumb enough to stick around through this even if you don't fire back, if the other guy oversteps and turns rogue he has such an advantage over you that you may as well be handing him the kill, you have handed him too much of an advantage.

    If you do have enough and fire back before he turns you are similarly screwed but as a rogue.
    I always see other members on any forum shooting down ideas but don't see much of "this should be done instead". I would like to see others add their ideas/fixes to the current model. You are also contriving hypothetical situations.

    While we are using hypotheticals...; If someone wants to "pot shot" me until I lose 33% I will let them until they go Rogue, I use a medkit/heal ability then attempt to kill them, I make more than would have from killing me.
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  7. #7
    sandpants's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Label07 Go to original post
    I don't agree. If the "per-hit" system were implemented there would be accidental rogues everywhere and it would be even worse than the timer pause we currently have. There are medkits assuming the person has one as well as the heal ability (and specialized ability in full game). Assuming you had played a lot of DZ in the beta(s) you know accidental rogue happens ALL THE TIME, my idea alleviates that.

    If a player shoots/explodes away 33% (1 bar) of a players HP it is obviously intentional.
    What if he shoots 32%? Is it not intentional then?
    You cannot determine intention with a threshold...
    Like Anglisc said, it just open up the system for more safe potshots that put the victim at a bigger disadvantage.

    With per hit shots there will be more accidental Rogues that are quickly churned out. It's a lot easier to die in 20s than it is in 5s.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by sandpants Go to original post
    What if he shoots 32%? Is it not intentional then?
    You cannot determine intention with a threshold...
    Like Anglisc said, it just open up the system for more safe potshots that put the victim at a bigger disadvantage.

    With per hit shots there will be more accidental Rogues that are quickly churned out. It's a lot easier to die in 20s than it is in 5s.
    At 32% your HP will auto-regen since the full bars HP has not been surpassed. If someone/group can do exactly 32% (or close to) I will be impressed.
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  9. #9
    Think about it differently.

    There is no such thing as accidental rogue.

    If I go rogue unwantingly the way I see it I have three choices,

    1. Run like mad to outlive the short timer
    2. surrender and hope proximity chat is working.
    3. Pick my respawn spot

    To me it's just that easy. If I am solo and this starts to happen.

    I'll just go PvE till some buds come online and then it won't happen so often

    I don't see a problem that needs a fix, it is what it it is.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Label07 Go to original post
    I always see other members on any forum shooting down ideas but don't see much of "this should be done instead". I would like to see others add their ideas/fixes to the current model. You are also contriving hypothetical situations.

    While we are using hypotheticals...; If someone wants to "pot shot" me until I lose 33% I will let them until they go Rogue, I use a medkit/heal ability then attempt to kill them, I make more than would have from killing me.
    This whole forum is a hypothetical situation, we simply don't know how the game is going to pan out and the reason I don't offer another solution is because I don't see a problem, watch your fire, if you accidentally hit someone enough to turn you rogue, you have a choice, stop firing, apologise and hope they don't just kill you, finish the job you accidentally started or run.

    I don't see a problem there so why would I offer any solutions?
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