I'm just going to point out bunch of things I do NOT like in the dark zone and in this case, the Rogue mechanic. I'm focusing on dark zone because I like PvP more than PvE.
Going Rogue ? I've become rogue more by accident than intentionally and I've seen alot of other players done that mistake. It's simple really, you shot with your marksman rifle and hit the wrong target etc. Well, that ain't the real issue, just need to have more trigger dicipline. I want to point out the real issue in PvP.
Real problem becomes when you have to deal with people who are abusing rogue system. Ever had that when people shoot you just once or twice with a weaker gun ? I meet ALOT of these people / groups (they are baiting you to shoot at them). Also there is a huge problem when people are going to obviously attack you and you cannot attack them because it turns you into rogue even though the entire earth planet knows the guys infront of you are obvious rogues.
Example ? Me and a random buddy I met in-game had some loot, called the chopper and soon we meet these fine 4 gentlemans who had no loot and they were just running around us like sharks. We both knew these guys are going to attack us soon as the chopper comes in and they did and there was nothing for us to do. If we would have run away, they would have chased us, I mean they have 2 man advantage over us. And if we innitiate on them and become rogue, they have the advantage eitherway because now the rest of the potential players would join on their side to kill the rogues. And even if we did manage to rightly defend our stuff by turning into rogues we'd probably have entered manhunt phase which is just unfair. There is the the REAL issue. How to create a system where obvious rogues can be actually be shot at without you going rogue ? We did kill bunch of rogue groups and as rogues so I'm not bad in PvP with my online friend I met today. We were actually doing really good. But it's still a HUGE disadvantage to go rogue just because you know that the group around you WILL go rogue soon as the chopper comes in.
I want a more advanced Rogue system. If you (devs) are happy with the current rogue system, that WILL be the major complaint and be the downfall of PvP where people just can't take the game seriously and eventually just drop the game (or just become also abusive for this system and create a horrible PvP community) which will hurt your sales on the long run.
You need a system where you track individual players stats. Does he go rogue alot ? Is he shooting at other players alot but won't actually go rogue ? Is he turning rogue on extraction zones alot ? With a system that can collect and track for example these stats you can flag players as '' high potential rogue''. What we can do gameplay wise from there is alot. We could make it so that these high risk rogues would be marked and flagged for example with a yellow name to warn other non-hostile players that this / these players most likely are going to backstab you when you are turning your loot to the chopper. And that's the thing, you are VERY vurnable to attacks when you want to load your stuff to the chopper and people know this and are willing to wait till you do that. But with this potential rogue flagging system you could allow non-hostile players actually innitiate combat on these ''yellow potential rogue'' marked players without you actually going rogue. And if these yellow players would return fire they would turn rogue.
Make it so that you will only be flagged as potential rogue when you enter the extraction area. If you're out from a extraction area you won't be flagged as potential rogue. If you took damage while you were on yellow state from a non-hostile player you will have a timer when you leave area so the non-hostile player won't go rogue by accident when the yellow marked player ran away from extraction zone.
People who grind and fight against NPC mobs and are putting in alot of effort in order to get good loot can so EASILY be stabbed for it when it comes time to turn in the loot to the chopper (or in process of fighting that said npc mobs) by a player or two is just unfair. Why should anyone bother putting any effort exploring and looting dark zone when you can just camp extraction area and strike when the moment is right and steal all fruits of the other peoples labour ? That's the issue, camping and backstabbing people on extraction zone is helluva lot easier and quicker to gain loot than actually take risks of fighting hard npc groups and even then be vurnable to backstabs. Give non-hostile players some more love. This ''yellow flagging'' in extraction area could be one potential solution. You wanna PvP the gear away from me ? Do it like a man and not some cheap easy trick where you and your buddy or your entire squad unload on me 2-4 sticky bombs when I want to turn my loot in. Great, 30min journey and hard earned loot got stolen me in 3 seconds by a player(s) who just waited me to show up without even trying. Give the non-hostile player tools to fight and have a CHANCE at defending your rightly collected gear. Give me a premission to shoot at the guy who is VERY likely to kill me in extraction zone. Make the rogue work for the loot !
There is plenty of ways to improve the rogue system and that's just one idea I came up with. But whatever you guys are planning to do, improve the rogue system please. That's my only real problem with PvP at this time. It needs re-wroking and ironing.
The very thing that makes PvP in this game interesting is the loot and how you extract it and the rogue mechanic, creating intense moments. But rogue mechanic is still the downfall of this games PvP aswell. Rogue mechanic has caused me and my friend more frustration than anything else and that's the least thing you want as a gamer when you want to play games. It is at this time way too easy to abuse and outright be unfair against non-hostile players. Problem is not PvP, it's the PvP mechanic. Imagine getting rid of rogue mechanic ? Yeah we would have 24/7 shooting on sight and making the games PvP 100% un-interesting. The rogue concept is absolutely great ! But how it is currently working in the game is bad and leaves you a sour taste in your mouth most of the time.
Hopefully a developer will read this and understand the problem. That being said. I left my feedback and gave you an idea. I tried. Waiting how the final product will look like. Yours truly: Rock.
Originally Posted by Rock-103 Go to original post
Yeah I agree, for me it's when your team-mate in your group team accidentally shoots a player, mistaken him or her as an enemy target and all of us in his group team become rogue agents which results in every player shooting at us. I'm hoping there is more to the Dead Zone PVP in the full game, maybe even a team deathmatch mode, and a Wave mode, protecting a base from wave of enemies with random players, and in group teams. Also I am hoping that things become more chaotic around the map in the full game, unexpected, and unpredictable scenarios where enemies spawn randomly around the map in greater numbers. To keep you on your toes and put you on edge.
Overall I really like this game, great 3rd person mechanics. And the cover system is flawless but that's what you'd expect in a Ubisoft game.
Baiting happens because there is no reward for surviving the ranks of being rogue, but there is insane reward for killing rogues.
So those PvP players are now baiting others into going rogue for the reward, instead of becoming rogues themselves for the reward.
That's what happens when everyone complains that rogue type players shouldn't be incentivized to go rogue... they find a way to abuse the system in order to get their reward.
Sorry Dent but "could have ran away" is exactly what you do. Start early and don't stop. It's part of the fun.
My 2 man team just ran a group of 4 rogues off the parking garage extraction. Kill 1 and the rats flee, in all directions.
Gotta tell you tho, I love going Rogue now, and I think the timer upgrade is a good one.
So there you go, have a win and feel good about it.
Solution (tho):
Make the damage done to other Players by non rogues, additive.
So if they can get away with 500 damage say, if they shoot me for free and do 200, then later shoot you for 300, that's it. Every damage after is over their threshold so they immediately go Rogue with friendly fire, no matter who they shoot.
This additive Rogue Baiter tracking score should only reset if they leave the DZ entirely and empty their stash.
Or die I suppose, if it needs to be less punitive.
So habitual baiters can't do it forever for free. What you think?
How u want the game to be like U want it? All these things are what makes the game fun, tension, tricks, suspense, whether to shoot or not to shoot, trust or don't trust. U are trying to make it easier for U. "because i don't like the way this work, the game will fail." LOL
There are so many options, skills, tools, tricks that you can use to beat your opponent. The "Dark Zone" is a mysterious place.
" to flag people that are likely to go rogue, put a yellow triangle above their head " LOL what happen to meeting a stranger into the DARK ZONE and cannot tell whether he's gonna betray u or not?
The advantage that you have is the player trying to steal your loot, doesn't know what you are capable of. your skills, your tactics or your load out so use that element of surprise when they try to attack u, u were ready for it. Let's the game be and stop crying![]()
He's not crying, he has a point. I killed a bunch of Rogues last night and they come right back all angry and start tagging me. Guys from different teams.
If I wait, by the time I go Rogue they either sucked my hp down to where they get an easy kill or they make me burn heals.
I just frickin jam a full mag right in their grill and go Rogue anyway, screw em, they ain't good enough to catch me, but it is a little bogus that they can do FREE damage for no punishment.
Should be additive. Do it too much and you're out of FREEBIES, weak sauce (not you, the baiters).
Originally Posted by SolidSage Go to original post
Huh? I'm just saying why baiting people is such an attractive strategy. There's no reason to go rogue anymore other than just boredom. There's no reward. You kill a yellow boss NPC he has a 100% chance to drop a blue item or two, players don't have a 100% chance to be carrying blue loot. Could be an aesthetic item or just greens.
With no reward in the later rogue ranks, and now no reason to risk it for the loot... going rogue is just not worth it.
+1Originally Posted by drdent45 Go to original post
If it stays like this the DZ is Doomed to fail. It doesn't cater ANYONE right now. Want to go Rogue? ... no reason to. Want to be the good guy Hunting Rogues? ... there are no Rogues to hunt.
And if you want to hardcore only PvE I bet it will be a lot cooler and more rewarding and tense when you just do dungeons on challenging modes. So everyone who really wants the fun PvPvE DZ mix is left behind since it doesn't really offer both of it. The "only" PvE Community will end up in Dungeons and the PvE zone while the people that want the mix will just get bored and leave the game.
I made 5k in an hour going Rogue and killing Rogues. Took 8 hrs fighting NPC's, with baiters taxing me.
Plus smashing loads of players who are out for your blood is intoxicating.
Take em down to the sub way and then they're in the shiz. Love it when I stop running and turn and fight....you can almost feel the shock on their faces.
i started playing with my friend since day one. we couldn't make enough money to buy a great weapon. He went rogue ONCE without me, he survived. when i came back, he had money to purchase the weapon that we both were trying to get. NO REWARD? I'm still grinding
They need to give us, rogue just a bit more and that's it. If you give us too much now we will just kill anyone extracting, it's worth it.