1. #1
    patch_adams's Avatar Banned
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    Here is the scenario. You are in pure pursuit of an enemy bandit stuck in a SUSTAINED TURN. The bandit has more energy than you do. You cannot turn your plane fast enough to pull lead for a shot but you are right behind him at about his seven o'clock.

    Assume the aircraft have the SAME TURNRATE and Identical flight characteristics (same plane) just for example and to better understand the concept.

    DO you continue to turn with him and hope he makes a mistake?

    Do you goto lead pursuit and angle above or below him and try to cut inside his turn? (high, low yo yo?)

    Lag pursuit?

    Do you extend?

    What is the best option?

    Assume your goal is to down your opponent and not run away. Thanks please explain your answer choice.
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  2. #2
    patch_adams's Avatar Banned
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    Here is the scenario. You are in pure pursuit of an enemy bandit stuck in a SUSTAINED TURN. The bandit has more energy than you do. You cannot turn your plane fast enough to pull lead for a shot but you are right behind him at about his seven o'clock.

    Assume the aircraft have the SAME TURNRATE and Identical flight characteristics (same plane) just for example and to better understand the concept.

    DO you continue to turn with him and hope he makes a mistake?

    Do you goto lead pursuit and angle above or below him and try to cut inside his turn? (high, low yo yo?)

    Lag pursuit?

    Do you extend?

    What is the best option?

    Assume your goal is to down your opponent and not run away. Thanks please explain your answer choice.
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  3. #3
    Chuck_Older's Avatar Banned
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    Not enough info.

    How high are we?
    What type of plane? Fighter? Bomber?
    Are other aircraft around? Enemy? Friendly?
    Why is he stuck? Mechanical failure?


    Given sufficient height, and a pure 1 on 1 situation versus a fighter with no rear gunner, I would go into lead pursuit and then when I am ready I'd execute a high yo-yo, rolling into him from above and diving past after my firing pass. I'd use the energy gained to do it again and again until he's downed, or I run out of ammo, or we are too low.

    In short, i would always keep him under my thumb

    *****************************
    The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
    Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
    ~ Clash
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  4. #4
    Might be able to try a vector roll attack. P-47's used this against 109's with good success
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  5. #5
    JG14_Josf's Avatar Senior Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The bandit has more energy than you <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    A Barrel Roll Attack is an overshoot control maneuver so it would not apply if the target has more energy = speed or altitude.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>you are right behind him at about his seven o'clock <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Same altitude?

    The target is then faster.

    The faster plane will have a larger turn radius.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You cannot turn your plane fast enough to pull lead for a shot <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This contradicts the previously declared energy state.

    and this:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>SAME TURNRATE and Identical flight characteristics <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The slower plane will have a smaller turn radius and therefore be able to pull lead, even if the faster plane is maximizing turn rate at corner speed.

    If the slower plane is out of range (not close enough for a shot) then the situation appears to be defensive, despite relative possition.

    The situation is made more defensive subject to the degree of relative speed. If the target is a whole lot faster than the situation is more defensive.

    If the situation is that the target plane is only slightly faster than the situation is more offensive.

    If the target keeps turning and keeps the power on then the slower plane can gain even more angles by reducing the throttle.

    Check here:Virtualpilots

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>" When the enemy decreased power, I used to throttle back even more. In a high speed the turning radius is wider, using less speed I was able to out-turn him having a shorter turning radius. Then you got the deflection, unless the adversary did not spot me in time and for example banked below me. 250kmh seemed to be the optimal speed." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Kysoti Karhila, Finnish fighter ace. 32 victories.
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  6. #6
    patch_adams's Avatar Banned
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    same altitude, pure 1v1, assume the bandit conserves energy by arching his turn up and then down but still remains a circle fight. if you do nothing then eventually he will out muscle you and get behind you because of his initial speed/energy advantage. Remember that you cannot pull lead and have less energy even if you have a smaller turn radius.
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  7. #7
    do basically you're saying i'm just out of firing range, tailing a fighter with an e advantage, and he's pulling away...

    since it's a fighter, and is not going to bomb my house, i will dive, extend and climb all at the same time.

    I will let him increase his lead, while I pull away to a safe distance and gain altitude.

    If he wants to run, that's fine by me, If he wants to turn around, bleed off some e, and come after me when I have equal or better state, than it's his folly.

    Im not gonna waste my time chasing him down when he could be setting me up for his wingman or some AA fire.

    Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
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  8. #8
    Chuck_Older's Avatar Banned
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    Josf's points are valid.

    Also, if it's the same aircraft, how can he use his intital speed advantage to constantly be faster than me?


    I go into lead pursuit. I cut his corner because I am in lead pursuit. Same turn radius doesn't mean we are both at max turn rate.

    When he is low on energy from his short climb, I climb, too, but I don't turn.

    he continues his turn, he's stuck there.

    I drop a wing, kick over the rudder, dive onto him and let him hold a few hundred rounds of lead.

    if he doesn't get flamed, now I have e-advantage, and I grind him into dust by out climbing and out speeding him. I constantly pounce.

    *****************************
    The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
    Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
    ~ Clash
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  9. #9
    lag pursuit, build e, high yo yo and smoke his ****.
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  10. #10
    BaldieJr's Avatar Senior Member
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    this don\'t make no sense!
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    The setup doesn't make sense, but based on what you've provided, loop. If he's doing a full-on turn with more E, go high and hope for the best. Maybe catch him after you reverse.
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