It better be better than the two Flop games you made! | Forums

[Cortexian]

I'm gonna be frank here.

Fully realistic damage would be boring as hell. Humans are extremely fragile creatures when it comes to warfare. There's a reason we've invented armored vehicles and aircraft, and are moving towards unmanned vehicles to conduct our warfare for us. I don't want fully realistic damage models in my shooters, because I want my shooters to be fun. I'd like them to be "relatively realistic", in which reality says "hey, this is a video game and it needs to be fun before everything else".

Realistic movements for weapons and actions can only go so far. Motion capture has had an enormous impact on the video game and CGI industry in the past few years. They used motion capture of real ex-military special forces guys for previous Tom Clancy games, and I doubt they'll throw that out the window for Wildlands. It's a great way to get your basic animations down, then simply have your animators fine tune anything that the motion capture system couldn't handle (fine movements, etc).

Now without building a totally new -not yet seen in gaming- animation system with hundreds if not thousands of different animation combinations... You will never see perfectly realistic weapon and character animations in a game. As far as I'm aware, they technology just isn't at a point where it wouldn't also require thousands of man hours to nail everything down perfectly. So the animations will be good, I'm sure, but not perfect yet.

There will be real weapons. Every weapon I saw when we played the game in Paris (and weapons I saw on devs monitors and in concept art) were real world weapons. I didn't see a single weapon that wasn't real. I saw no "concept guns" that weren't actually in production. I saw no "future guns" that haven't even been conceptualized yet. The Ghost Recon teams have always done a pretty good job at getting real world guns done correctly whenever they implemented them. Some minor animation/texturing issues aside. They're devs, not operators. They don't walk around the office strapped with HK416's and 870 Tactical shorty breaching shotguns all day for reference... As cool as that would be.

Pre-planning is definitely something I'd like to see implemented as an option. I'd also like the option of a simple "follow me" type command for my squad though. You know, for when my pre-planned op goes into SHTF mode and everything starts to fall apart.

The AI were relatively smart in the development build we played already. I'm sure they'll only get better. We'll have to wait and see until some more people get to go hands on and report their findings.

Bottom line is this: It's a game, first and foremost. Games need to be fun. It's not attempting to be a simulator like ArmA. If you look at a lot of the ArmA missions that the community has made, many of the hardcore "realistic" features have been removed, or simply not utilized in their entirety. Why? Because they aren't fun over an extended period. As "neat" as a fatigue system is, when dealing with a huge open environment it's kind of annoy to deal with sometimes. Basically, sacrifices must be made in the realism department to make games fun. Just like how some games need to make graphical quality sacrifices to make performance better.

It's all about finding the right balance of mechanics... Realistic VS. fun. Pretty graphics VS. performance. Etc.

[Ghost Sniper33]

Depends on what you call fun, Cort.

Shooting a guy in a game because I'm smarter than he is, I out-thought him, I used the map better than he did and I got the first hit in, but then I lose the gun fight because he's better than me with his right thumb is not fun for me. High damage models boil down to unrealistic behaviours, which is fun for some and game breaking for others.

Big, high player-count shooters kind of need high damage as it helps to limit the frustration of random dumb luck after travelling several minutes to the objective, but GR, like R6, is a different vibe to that. You pull off a dumb stunt, you get punished, no second chances.

bingo,
I've had times where I crawled for 10 minutes just to get 1 shoted in the head - its frustrating but deserved since i didn't use my cover. it shouldn't take more then maybe 3 shots to put someone down - ever.

[Cortexian]

Exactly, I agree with that too.

My point was that games like ArmA, which focus entirely on realism, aren't always fun without changes to make them more fun. I could literally spent 20 minutes transitioning from base to the AO in ArmA, only to get off a helicopter or truck convoy, get shot once and die.

That's not fun.

Well, for me it is because I'm usually the helicopter pilot so I don't need to deal with the dying part. I just turn around and go back to base to shuttle more people around.

[Timberley]

Well, Cort, this is why I keep hoping that they'll lean towards the OGR damage model as a solution. I never found OGR to be as realistic as OFP or Arma, but it was definitely punishing if you didn't think through the consequences of your initial plan. There have been countless times I've had to restart a mission because I didn't think about my flanks (for example) and subsequently got a couple of the team killed. But, on all occasions, it felt like it was my fault because I hadn't considered the map properly and had run straight forward, thinking the area to be clear, and forgetting about the ridge line to my front/side, or the thicker copse of trees to my right.

I agree with keeping the game fun, but I'd prefer them to err on the side of realism with it. Meanwhile, Arma3 delights and frustrates me in equal measure because of its almost slavish adherence to realism, despite the swivel-eyed lunacy of the AI sometimes. However, Arma-level is not what I'm looking for.

Tim

[meathead_79]

All I want is one shot head kills from sniper rifles at any range! I love everything about GRFS damage, except that it seems sniper rifles can take 2-3 head shots to kill from any distance longer than 100 meters.

[GiveMeTactical]

1 Shot in the head even with a 9mm handgun should drop/kill anybody... unless of course he is wearing a kevlar protective head gear, then at least with a pistol he could recover but if 5.56 or 7.62 he should not get back up.

1 shot with a pistol or assault weapon on the body should drop anybody... if using protective gear, it should at least move him back and hinder his movements for a couple of seconds giving you time to finish him off if need be.

Many a times I have unloaded a full Pistol Mag onto an enemy that came out of nowhere (perhaps a corner) but I was fortunate enough to shoot first (headshot or not) only to be killed because the guy did not even flinched and buckshot me into oblivion... as an example. And I could go on but I am sure the Devs know what I am taking about. And Yes, we all know this is not the Devs decision but UBI so perhaps community Managers should be sending memos to the Wigs and not the Devs when it comes to allowing more realistic gameplay... even the run-and-gun dude wants more realism when it comes to bullets.

This thing where you load half a clip into an enemy AI and he is still capable of shooting back and kill you to boot is what I hate and mean about Arcade-ish. I get we are playing a game and I sometimes deserve to be kill for not wanting to use my teammates,but after all, I pay for a game I should be the one doing the shooting and not them LOL. What I mean about the game being realistic or Sim-like is exactly what I said above.

[MAJ0R_K0NG]

Gadget wise less is more.

+1. More grit, less gadgets.

[StealthTallyFox]

am I the only pro-gadgets here? kinda liked the ability to "cheese" the whole thing

no gadgets in fine though, gotta get some experience on not relying on them

[GiveMeTactical]

We all love gadgets, after all, you wouldn't be human if you didn't

I believe its all about Balancing the scales a bit. Its like when someone gives you a small piece of a hellacious good cake and you remember that piece until the next time you have another small piece, etc, etc, etc. What happens when you have half of that hellacious good cake? you feel like vomiting and not having it for a very long time...

UBI should set the Devs free, to a point, and allow them them time to do what they do best... make a pontential humongous game into the coolest game ever... instead off only a "Potential Game that flopped at Launch"

[Flaw3dGenius23]

am I the only pro-gadgets here? kinda liked the ability to "cheese" the whole thing

no gadgets in fine though, gotta get some experience on not relying on them

Gadgets are purely put in to get the casual crowd on side.

Cannot find the enemy...why not use a gadget instead of using your brain and light up the enemy like a ****ing Christmas tree!

Modern gaming is horrible...but apperently this Ghost Recon is not going to be like this.........