Commanding AI in GRW | Forums

[shobhit7777777]

Its been confirmed that the game can be played offline with AI teammates, so I'm going to go ahead and share my thoughts on GRW's squad command gameplay

"Operators" not Drones

Ghost Recon 1 and Future Soldier did one thing right - "Smart" teammates. The game would understand my general intent and translate it smoothly for the AI teammates. In OGR, I'd decide the ROE and assign waypoints/fire arcs....I'd only do high level tactical stuff. The AI would then move and react all on its own with remarkable competence.

I never had to micromanage my units in GR1...apart from the in-door CQB encounters. They would move as a team, cover the relevant sector, fire with accuracy and were very, very useful

With a competent teammate AI I'm not concerned with exactly where they are placed, where they are looking at and what exactly they are firing at....as a commander I should focus on the larger picture and executing my plan. This is extremely important for a game like Ghost Recon.

GRAW 1/2 on the PC were perfect examples of how not to do it IMO - they gave you TOO much control and without your constant babysitting, your guys were essentially dumbt machine gun turrets.

Future Soldier - inspite of all its flaws - really did the squad AI well. It is very immersion breaking, time consuming and exhausting when you have to individually and painstakingly do pedestrian tasks like placing each guy behind cover and managing firearcs....I need to be concerned with getting Alpha close to the edge of the treeline so they can ambush the enemy squad...and not bogged down with the minor details like ensuring they move form cover to cover and not do anything stupid...like stand up and sprint to the objective.

The teammates in Future Soldier would move well in cover and always manage to protect my flank, they would make actual useful callouts, they would never be caught looking in the wrong direction and would do surprisingly well in firefights. There was a high degree of autonomy there. Granted the game cheated with the inviso cloaks...but they still managed to be an asset and not a liability

I'd like GRW to have an OGR/GRFS level of autonomy of AI, where I don't need to babysit a team of static turrets.


Commander's Intent: Orders vs Instructions

While I appreciate the AI autonomy in GRFS, one thing that really annoyed me was the lack of ANY orders beyond "Shoot this guy first". I love smart teammates and AI that can handle itself, but inability to actually command them was supremely annoying in GRFS.

In GRW, with its open world sandbox, It would be necessary to have some basic tactical command without the micromanagement BS of GRAW 1/2

Basic commands like "Disengage", "Ambush", "Flank R/L" should have the squad carry out predetermined "SOPs" so that you can quickly plan and adapt. A great example was the "Take cover" command or "Hold" in Ghost Recon 1....your teammates would halt, scramble for cover, adopt the appropriate stance and scan the most threatening direction.

Example:

Disengage/Fall back:

- I've ****ed up.....I ambushed a unit 3 times my size and they have re-enforcements rolling in.
- I give the disengage command
- My squad AI understands that the "Disengage" command would be given when the player needs to GTFO quick
- This should lead to the individual squad members doing several things
- My LMG gunner, sets up and provides covering fire
- My Sniper and the Rifleman peel off one by one
- The direction of falling back would always be the player's six...as seen from the third person camera
- The team would peel off - going cover to cover - till they are 100m (or whatever distance) from the firefight
- I could give the Assault command and they would stop retreating and head back into the fray...fire and movement


Grated their would be major design and tech hurdles for something like that - soooo many edge cases - but I'm sharing my "ideal" command system. Something that mizes the Squad AI of Future Soldier and Rainbow Six Vegas, with the Command system of GR1.

The fact that the game is set in a large sandbox without the control parameters of a scripted, tighter experience makes designing and implementing squad AI a huge challenge, I just hope they nail it.

Discuss what you guys would like from the Squad AI and Commands from GRW

[rakarys]

Its been confirmed that the game can be played offline with AI teammates ...

i wish they do that automated, im not really in the mood to care about them with talking or other then supporting their lifes and send off all enemies

fumbling with mouse, controller or keyboard to get the things done for "ruling" a team in a open world as it can be seen would lower my gaming-expirience

otherwise if a mission needs to be planned before we start i could imagine to do that, as well as not straight in a mission, i wanna have it easy and when i have to listen to some voice on and on i cant play

but thats me

[Ghost Sniper33]

i wish they do that automated, im not really in the mood to care about them with talking or other then supporting their lifes and send off all enemies

fumbling with mouse, controller or keyboard to get the things done for "ruling" a team in a open world as it can be seen would lower my gaming-expirience

otherwise if a mission needs to be planned before we start i could imagine to do that, as well as not straight in a mission, i wanna have it easy and when i have to listen to some voice on and on i cant play


but thats me

So no team work for you?

[Timberley]

Well, you pretty much described my ideal C&C system! But, I have some additional ideas that are a wee bit different...

I'd like them to intelligently take cover (can see the enemy, but from a position of concealment), advance according to the RoE I select (e.g. 'Recon' means avoid enemy sight lines and keep out of the 'earshot' circles around each enemy unit) and select good targets (prioritise the GPMG gunner above the closer rifleman because the gunner can provide greater weight of fire). Alternatively, if I want them to tab a couple of miles to steal that helo I saw sitting by a poorly manned guard post they will intelligently traverse the terrain and tell me when they're getting close, so I can see what they're up against and tell them to hold if required.

I'd also like them to be able to take quick orders in the heat of battle (as we can do in MGSV) and intelligently follow them. For example, say you could place a marker on the map called RV Alpha whilst in a firefight, you could issue the order to some or all of the AI to 'Move to Alpha'. The AI knows it's heading away from the firefight, so they follow their 'break contact' AI coding and use fire and manoeuvre to head to RV Alpha. If issued to all, then they use squad F&M, if only a single soldier, then they avoid contact by short sprints between hard cover and maybe throwing a smoke grenade to block enemy sight lines, whilst trying to break contact. Alternatively if I place the marker further forward, towards the firefight, I'd expect them to follow similar F&M, but with an emphasis on effective fire before each sprint.

The caveat here is I'd also like to be able to take control (ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL) of each AI squadmate (as in OGR) and point them towards a better target or put them in a better fire position if I think it's needed. Once placed by my oafish hands, they don't move unless they're 'broken' by the weight of fire coming at them or I tell them to move somewhere else.

As I mentioned elsewhere though, there will probably be some people who don't want to do anything tactical and just want to shoot things. So, in such circumstances, have the AI by default set to a sort of 'Follow' pathing, where they mimic your stance and RoE. In this case, they would follow you like sheep, but intelligently taking cover nearby when you stopped, not shooting unless you fired first (or they were receiving effective fire), and so on. That should hopefully appease the folk that don't want to do the tactical teamwork or don't have the time to do cunning strategies.

Tim

Edit: Bah, Bluefox pretty much said what I meant, but much more succinctly...

[shobhit7777777]

I want to plan them, but not babysit them.

Giving them a route, roe, formation choice and a general fire arc when they get to their objective does it for me. I don't want to babysit them, and I do want them to look after themselves once they are set off. I'd also expect them to adapt or request new orders if they can't attain the objective, and I do expect them to update me as they go.

Agreed completely.

I'd like them to intelligently take cover (can see the enemy, but from a position of concealment), advance according to the RoE I select (e.g. 'Recon' means avoid enemy sight lines and keep out of the 'earshot' circles around each enemy unit) and select good targets (prioritise the GPMG gunner above the closer rifleman because the gunner can provide greater weight of fire). Alternatively, if I want them to tab a couple of miles to steal that helo I saw sitting by a poorly manned guard post they will intelligently traverse the terrain and tell me when they're getting close, so I can see what they're up against and tell them to hold if required.

I'd also like them to be able to take quick orders in the heat of battle (as we can do in MGSV) and intelligently follow them. For example, say you could place a marker on the map called RV Alpha whilst in a firefight, you could issue the order to some or all of the AI to 'Move to Alpha'. The AI knows it's heading away from the firefight, so they follow their 'break contact' AI coding and use fire and manoeuvre to head to RV Alpha. If issued to all, then they use squad F&M, if only a single soldier, then they avoid contact by short sprints between hard cover and maybe throwing a smoke grenade to block enemy sight lines, whilst trying to break contact. Alternatively if I place the marker further forward, towards the firefight, I'd expect them to follow similar F&M, but with an emphasis on effective fire before each sprint.

Exactly.

You devise the broader plan, they deal with the granularity of the tactics. At a command level, your tactical approach might be to ambush and hijack the cartel convoy, so you can drive into one of their bases with a VBIED....at squad level this would boil down to "Set Ambush at Alpha, Jack third truck from the front"...with the AI determining their positioning and fire arc.

I too would like some basic control over the squad like - LMG Dude...set up on that rock there and Sniper get up onto that tower. Contextual Rainbow Six/Republic Commando stuff.....that level of micromanagement is welcome.....but at the same time I want independant, smart "operators".

As for people who don't want to get involved in squad management, I feel a system like Future Soldier is absolutely perfect. They follow you around, intelligently and at most, you mark targets. That would be the minimum amount of involvement

The more I think about the scope of the game, the less possible our proposals seem. Its a dynamic, huge open world with a myriad of things and situations need to deal with. The AI would need to be super robust. This doesn't really allow for such an expansive system.

I feel we'll have Future Soldier's squad behaviour, coupled with contextual placement of individual units and ROE control like the Vegas games.

[SuperBiscotCOT]

I think you said everything I want for the AI teammates
Maybe a map than you can take fast or looking at it on mobile phone to directly give orders orders to AI and maybe the real players who are with you can see the same markers.
Maybe the same system as for R6S with the yellow pins pushed to a realy complete level for a real tactical experience.

[SuperBiscotCOT]

I want it realy pushed into something realy tactical for true tactical players (I'm part of them) but also something easy for other style of players that want just the AI to follow them.