1. #21
    cawatrooper9's Avatar AC Forum Moderator
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    Originally Posted by Ureh Go to original post
    It's probably safe to say that Ezio, in his old age, was the worst. TheACR/B kill streak system also made some of the combat kind of ridiculous because when Ezio's about to kill the next guard they'll leave themselves exposed. They sorta solved that in AC3 when you have to use certain tools and/or the disarm before you can continue the streak against grenadiers and jagers.

    One of Haytham's finishers always puzzled me because he is indeed a very concise swordsman - I'm not a fencer - but it's the one where he slashes his opponent with a "X" maneuver. Compared to the rest of his moves that one seemed a bit excessive.
    Yeah, old age Ezio did have some weird fancy moves- from a fencing standard I guess that would be a detriment to him, but from a gameplay standard his killstreaks were some of the easiest in the game- maybe he knew what he was doing after all.

    ACII Ezio on the other hand- he's not a very experienced swordsman in his youth, and it is very much (intentionally or not) reflected in the gameplay.
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  2. #22
    Bipolar Matt's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by Ureh Go to original post
    It's probably safe to say that Ezio, in his old age, was the worst. TheACR/B kill streak system also made some of the combat kind of ridiculous because when Ezio's about to kill the next guard they'll leave themselves exposed. They sorta solved that in AC3 when you have to use certain tools and/or the disarm before you can continue the streak against grenadiers and jagers.

    One of Haytham's finishers always puzzled me because he is indeed a very concise swordsman - I'm not a fencer - but it's the one where he slashes his opponent with a "X" maneuver. Compared to the rest of his moves that one seemed a bit excessive.
    Not only that, Haytham did the X move twice, total of 4 slashes. I always thought that was a brutal kill animation. Almost like he was branding the poor sucker.
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  3. #23
    LoyalACFan's Avatar Senior Member
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    Welp, I can't hope to complete with M's definitive analysis based on animation and fencing technique, so I'll just put forth my opinions based on lore (which makes things a little less messy because you don't have to contend with reused or impossible animations).

    Altair: essentially grew up with a sword in his hand, having been raised in Masyaf as an Assassin from birth. But even then, he was exceptional even for an Assassin considering the fact that he outfought Robert and his knights at Arsuf in direct combat.

    Ezio: probably received standard training in swordsmanship as per the norm for noblemen, plus extensive studies under Mario, so he would have learned both formal fencing style and battlefield techniques. However, he doesn't have any keystone victories under his belt like Altair v Robert so it's harder to gauge. He beat Rodrigo (a fat old man) and Cesare (apparently mostly with his hidden blades), but I can't really classify them purely as victories of swordsmanship.

    Haytham: he really had instruction from a diverse array of sources; I believe it was said that Edward trained him as a child, and then Birch, and then the British Army, so in essence he's been under the tutelage of Assassin, Templar, and military schools of thought. He also uses the sword almost exclusively, without the distraction of the hidden blade for most of his career, so he had plenty of practice with sword combat in it purest form.

    Connor: ehhh... As far as I can tell, he has zero training with swords, and if you watch him, his sword moves are wild and sloppy, relying on pure brute strength rather than technique (I know I said I wouldn't examine animations but I've got little else to go on here, and all of his sword animations are new). The same is not true of his moves with the tomahawk and war club, so we can assume he had training with them in Kanataseh:ton, and they are by far his favored weapons. Plus, considering the brilliance of AC3's animation direction, I can't help but think that his elegant proficiency with those weapons contrasted with his wildness with the sword was done on purpose to illustrate that he wasn't that good of a swordsman; his skills were focused on the weapons he would have grown up with.

    Edward: he's tricky too, since in reality dual-wielding cutlasses is very impressive, but in the canon he's the only one of the protagonists to suffer multiple defeats in 1v1 combat (against El Tiburon, who he ultimately couldn't beat at all without pistols, and in the ambush that killed him). He also didn't have much actual training until well into adulthood; he was a soldier, true enough, but he was implied to have just been a common grunt who wouldn't have gotten much special attention. So what I'm getting from this is that he's very strong and very coordinated, but he also relies heavily on his guns and dirty tricks over technique.

    Shay: well, as far as I can tell he typically didn't even carry a sword until the one Liam gave him in the beginning of Rogue. He also grew up poor, and apparently had precious little instruction in swordfighting. He didn't fight any of his Assassin targets in combat. I see Shay as more of a hunter than a fighter, and I'm not seeing much evidence to the contrary.

    Arno: again, he probably did have fencing training as a teenager just like Ezio, since he grew up in a pretty posh, upper-class lifestyle. His strikes are fairly measured and precise compared to most of the other protagonists, even though, in my opinion, his most graceful and practiced moves are with the spear, and he doesn't have any iconic victories either.

    So ultimately, I think it comes down to Haytham>Altair>Arno>Ezio>Edward>Connor>Shay.
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  4. #24
    I have not played ac rogue so I can not speak for that. I fenced for 3 years myself and here is my view on the assassin's. I skipped the frye twins because there was too much game logic in syndicate to reasonably compare them to the other assassins.

    Arno: I think Arno was the besy. Arno uses efficient strikes to overwhelm most enemies and for the ones that are good enough swordsman he can either make himself a stun window using efficient blocks and strong staggering strikes or he can use his strength to overwhelm an enemy with master attacks. Arno is a very technical fighter with a strategy for every scenario.

    Altair: I have to agree with the many others that his footwork is flawless and he is downright a great fighter. Like Arno Altair is very technical.

    Ezio: He is by far the worst fighter assassin's creed has ever seen; look at his attacks. His attacks are so grossly big that his entire torso is open. Realistically Ezio would be killed in a fight before he finished a second blow. His dodging is also slow and sloppy leaving him again vulnerable.

    Connor: He is even better than most assassins at using enemy attacks against them; disarming even the best of enemies. Connor can use almost any attack and weapon to his advantage making him a great fighter.

    Edward: He is an incredible fighter with his two swords. Edward can use his array of assassin gear to help him in combat against enemies. He does have to block before killing captains making him lose some points but his incredible breaking of defense earns him some points.

    Haythem: He is incredible with a sword but can not use as many things to his advantage making him a good fighter but not great.
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  5. #25
    I have not played ac rogue so I can not speak for that. I fenced for 3 years myself and here is my view on the assassin's. I skipped the frye twins because there was too much game logic in syndicate to reasonably compare them to the other assassins.

    Arno: I think Arno was the besy. Arno uses efficient strikes to overwhelm most enemies and for the ones that are good enough swordsman he can either make himself a stun window using efficient blocks and strong staggering strikes or he can use his strength to overwhelm an enemy with master attacks. Arno is a very technical fighter with a strategy for every scenario.

    Altair: I have to agree with the many others that his footwork is flawless and he is downright a great fighter. Like Arno Altair is very technical.

    Ezio: He is by far the worst fighter assassin's creed has ever seen; look at his attacks. His attacks are so grossly big that his entire torso is open. Realistically Ezio would be killed in a fight before he finished a second blow. His dodging is also slow and sloppy leaving him again vulnerable.

    Connor: He is even better than most assassins at using enemy attacks against them; disarming even the best of enemies. Connor can use almost any attack and weapon to his advantage making him a great fighter.

    Edward: He is an incredible fighter with his two swords. Edward can use his array of assassin gear to help him in combat against enemies. He does have to block before killing captains making him lose some points but his incredible breaking of defense earns him some points.

    Haythem: He is incredible with a sword but can not use as many things to his advantage making him a good fighter but not great.

    Utlimately: Arno>Altair>Edward/Connor>Haythem>Ezio

    EDIT: sorry for the double post. I don't know what happened.
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  6. #26
    pacmanate's Avatar Senior Member
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    How is Altair not on any of some of your lists?! All that guy had was 2 blades, a hidden blade and throwing knives!
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  7. #27
    I will go for connor
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  8. #28
    m4r-k7's Avatar Senior Member
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    Connor and Edward as they were one man armies. But that is because of the fighting mechanics in those games. On a realistic level it was probably Altair / Arno / Edward.
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  9. #29
    Arno? lol no. Arno is easily the worst.
    -Can't Pick up bodies.
    -Can barely hold his own against 20 Guards.
    -Can't disarm opponents.
    -Can't Counter Kill.
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