Platoon System and AI Teammate Permadeath | Forums

[DanHibikiFanXM]

So...how about we raise the stakes on the campaign missions and incorporate a long lost and long requested feature back into GR? For you younglings out there that never got a chance to play through the original GR titles there was a very simple, yet very effective gameplay element that made missions incredibly tense. In the first few titles the Ghosts operated on a platoon system. What is this system you ask?



Like the early Rainbow Six games it worked like this: you started a game with a roster of characters that fulfilled specific roles (Rifleman, Support, Sniper, Demo). These characters had a variety of different weapons available to them so you could tailor your team to the exact needs of the mission. If you completed certain objectives during a mission you unlocked a 'hero' character that had boosted stats and access to unique weaponry. Additionally, you must take note that these characters have stat bars - for every completed mission you gained the ability to increase their stats so they became even more deadly. Unfortunately, these characters could actually be killed (or wounded) during a mission in which case they were actually dead. We're not talking about the characters getting their 'off switch' hit for one mission and returning on the next but actually dead.

Gone.

Finished.

This simple feature made the missions in the original GR titles incredibly tense because you were heavily invested in your team. Losing a base-stat rifleman? Not that big of a deal. Losing a veteran squad member with boosted stats OR someone like Susan Grey? That crap would drive you insane. I'm advocating a return to this feature due to what I perceive to be Wildlands' set up. Due to the sandbox nature of the gameplay I assume there is less of an emphasis on character development and basic story...so what that means is that characters themselves might not necessarily have to survive because they have a scene coming up where they do something 'edgy' or 'hardcore.' This then is a perfect opportunity to make your allies disposable and by extension important to keep alive if you have an investment in them...an investment that YOU make and not one that the game forces onto you.

My suggestion to return to the platoon system however doesn't stop there. It appears that customization, at least to some degree, is in this game if the latest developer Q&A video is anything to go by. This is a prime opportunity to have a platoon system that operates like the ones in the recent XCOM titles. The XCOM titles feature a squad/team system that is VERY similar to OGR but it has an added degree of customization. You can customize character names, gender, hair, etc. As you play through missions these characters can gain in rank and in doing so gain access to special gear, along with a variety of perks/skills that you must choose from. Just as in OGR when you lose a character in XCOM it really, really, really sucks...but the difference is that these characters are actually YOURS in addition to whatever skills they had that are now gone.

This really seems like a system that would add a LOT of tension and depth to the core gameplay of this title. This platoon system needs to return. Seriously.

[SuperBiscotCOT]

We can have only 3 AI teammates and it would be nice to choose there specifications and weapons for each one. To have the choice for a "dream" squad.
It would be also nice to encourage the player to keep his friendlies alive :
-the more mission they do the more they have skill
-and if they die you have a new AI teammate which have very basic stats, basic weapons, ...
The AI need a leveling system. I think about MGS V with specs for all the soliders you kidnap, maybe not the same skills but gunners, snipers, ....
Also if you play with an other friend the two AI playing with you are each one chosen (based on their skills) by the two players from their friendly AI from the single player.

Also I will add that in Co-op it should be easy to see what your allies are carrying and what specifications they will choose. Maybe in a Squad lobby system.

[ES-Ulukai]

Ah that good buddy GR 1 ^^ makes me remember the good old time

[briangade]

Ahhhh the good old days I would love this.

But I don't really think it would work in a modern game you have a generation of player who are used handholding and "well you f**ked up but have a trophy and don't worry it will have no real consequences"

[DanHibikiFanXM]

Maybe, but the fact the XCOM titles have implemented a fairly robust platoon/team management and permadeath system so they could do it if they wanted. If they wanted to go a step beyond that they could perhaps take cues from the Valkyria Chronicles titles as well if they wanted to keep narrative included with their characters. In VC there was an entire platoon of characters that could be picked for missions with different loadouts, and each of these characters had a unique look along with unique voice acting. While they didn't have much at all to do with the main story they had huge back stories that were interesting to read and which progressed and expanded as you went on in the game. You learned that some characters are physically weak or strong, come from certain backgrounds, like or hate other characters, or have other issues. These back stories gave natural perks AND deficiencies which creates a sort of meta game of mixing and matching squadmates for certain scenarios.

To elaborate on the perks/deficiencies it worked like this: during battle certain conditions would activated either a buff or debuff. For example, a character might have dust allergies so fighting in the desert would negatively affect their stats. Some characters like to be around/work with other characters so if they are nearby they gain a boost to stats - and if they hate someone their stats would decrease.

One of the more interesting examples was a female sniper character that I can't recall the name of. Reading her backstory you learned that she fought in the previous war but during one particular battle she ran out of ammo and she had to watch helplessly as friendly soldiers were killed. Due to that incident she developed PTSD and if you brought her along into battle she would start having anxiety when her ammo started getting low which made her ineffective. She was an awesome sniper (one of the best) but you always had to keep an eye on her during the battle and make sure she never got low on ammo.

[Lolssi]

Yes to all points in original post except character progression. This is funny coming from a pretty hardcore rpg player but ghosts are best of the best and not some rookies that get better with more experience. I'd rather they just would use Rainbow Six kind of mechanic with different people with different attributes that are set.
Character progression wouldn't be the end of the world though, after all meta game is always good addition. I just feel that it wouldn't fit story and immersion wise.

[SuperBiscotCOT]

Yes to all points in original post except character progression. This is funny coming from a pretty hardcore rpg player but ghosts are best of the best and not some rookies that get better with more experience. I'd rather they just would use Rainbow Six kind of mechanic with different people with different attributes that are set.
Character progression wouldn't be the end of the world though, after all meta game is always good addition. I just feel that it wouldn't fit story and immersion wise.

I have to admit it's true

Maybe some additional special skills to unlock, no levels.

[DanHibikiFanXM]

That's exactly why I brought up the way XCOM handles their roster situation. In XCOM characters gain access to unique abilities upon performing well and surviving missions, and this could be transferable to Ghost Recon fairly easily. For example, after completing a mission you get the ability to upgrade a squadmate and have to make a decision between something like a heavier load capacity (ammo, gear, etc.) or quieter and less detectable footsteps. Something like that. Either way progression is the key to making this system function. If you don't have an investment in the characters (keeping them alive over many missions and improving their abilities) then it doesn't have the same impact when you lose them. The way Rainbow Six used to do it is fine too as that game had progression as well but I personally preferred the way it was done in OGR a lot more.

Don't think of it as a bunch of scrubs being a part of an elite military force - think of it as skilled fighters that get even more deadly as time goes on. After all, even base level squadmates in OGR were straight up murder machines if you used them right.

[Ghost Sniper33]

That's exactly why I brought up the way XCOM handles their roster situation. In XCOM characters gain access to unique abilities upon performing well and surviving missions, and this could be transferable to Ghost Recon fairly easily. For example, after completing a mission you get the ability to upgrade a squadmate and have to make a decision between something like a heavier load capacity (ammo, gear, etc.) or quieter and less detectable footsteps. Something like that. Either way progression is the key to making this system function. If you don't have an investment in the characters (keeping them alive over many missions and improving their abilities) then it doesn't have the same impact when you lose them. The way Rainbow Six used to do it is fine too as that game had progression as well but I personally preferred the way it was done in OGR a lot more.

Don't think of it as a bunch of scrubs being a part of an elite military force - think of it as skilled fighters that get even more deadly as time goes on. After all, even base level squadmates in OGR were straight up murder machines if you used them right.

Or they delpoy with certian gear, and after a successful mission you can choose how to rearm them for a supply drop or during a debrief.

[Timberley]

Ahhh the platoon from OGR... And a beautiful sight she is to see...

I'd love this system to return in GRW, along with robust AI, waypoint pathing, and soul swapping. And, given what MGSV managed to pull off with the side kick system, it's something that can be done on current console hardware (so no excuses really)!

Tim