1. #121
    zaxcv4321's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Danny-Ramone Go to original post
    I do not know the answer to this, but reading up on Skillet the other day, I noticed there is a 'Christian album chart' in the US (actually, I just noticed we have one in the UK as well).

    How does that work then? When does something qualify for the Christian chart? Is it enough for the band to proclaim themselves Christian, or do they need to have specifically Christian lyrics? Do they need to be on one of a number of participating labels?

    Not trying to be funny, just wondering, as it seems a little murky.
    This nails the point of my questions, but in a less threatening manner than the way that I asked. The main defense of Skillet in this thread against light mockery is that "they don't even sing about Christian stuff!" So why the label of Christian Metal? I wondered if it was just a way to better identify with a select audience, or to declare their beliefs by labeling their art. There is a lot of Christian influenced music, but it isn't usually labeled as such unless it is praise content, or evangelical.

    So I am not trying to be funny either about this question (maybe unintentionally funny), but does anyone have insight into this? Of course it doesn't matter from an artistic perspective: if someone likes the music, the beliefs of the listener and the artists should not matter. But someone made the point of labeling the band as such, and I think it interesting enough to ask why and poke a little fun at it.

    Open inquiry! Nothing is safe from scrutiny!
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  2. #122
    rcole_sooner's Avatar Moderator
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    I would guess it is just a choice by the artist. Which, I would assume, do feel they embrace some form of a Christian lifestyle, and want to get their message out.

    By declaring themselves "Christian" they will be more likely to be able to play at various "Christian" label events. Besides just another avenue for show revenue (which they may take very little of at these events), they can get their music and whatever message they have out to a crowd that is likely to be very receptive to it.

    Not really any different than any music category association made by any other artists. The listeners and/or industry will soon weed out any artists that don't fit their chosen category.
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  3. #123
    You have some good points Hermitian, but I'd still argue that christianity actually is more popular by this simple argument. I can point to more people who knows who Jesus is, than you can point to people who know who Melkor is, or even Voldemort. When it comes to expertise within these various fantasies, I'd say that Harry Potter fans know their books better than most christians (by far) know their bible. But then again, I'd say that they don't follow their bible, even though they claim it. That is another discussion.

    And yes, there is a lot of LOTR themed music, and other fantasies, there is music about more or less everything, as music is a very cultural thing.
    Let me try to ask the question in a different way. If Metallica were to come out as a christian band, would you then stop listening to them? Would you boycott them if they ever comes to RS?
    I mean, think of the lyrics in some of their songs. LIke the four horsmen, Creeping Death, My apocolypse.
    So what if they are a closet christian band, their musics still rocks, and that is the whole point for me. Is the music any good? (I'm not claiming that they actually are a closet christian band, just making a point)

    dro45, no one here is stopping you from poking fun at them, or even ridiculing them! But it did seem to me that you would boycott them because they have labelled themselves "christian music" and you said something like "music can't be christian, just as algebra isn't Islamic and physics isn't Catholic". My disagreement is this, we can in fact have christian music, as it isn't the music in itself that is christian, only its themes, which is quite possible when it comes to music. Or did I misunderstand you point?

    Are your positions something like "it is quite al right to listen to "divinely" inspired music, as long as it doesn't label itself as such"? It just seemd to me as you were far to quick to judge them.
    If this bore you, do not feel obliged to answer.


    Edit:
    Didn't see you last post dro45. Yeah, I take your point, it is a bit weird that they feel they need to brand themselves as a Christian band. Almost like if SOAD where to brand themselves "Politically themed Nu metal"
    My personal guess is that metal often is branded as statistician and evil, and that some musicians says, "no don't worry, you can still listen to metal without worshipping the devil, we play good christened themed metal music" I may be way off here, but that's how I've thought about it.
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  4. #124
    Danny-Ramone's Avatar Senior Member
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    Strange thing. I would be tempted to dismiss music by a band that bills themselves as Christian, but I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid listening to music by Christian or religious artists.

    I've long been a fan of 16 Horsepower, and their front man Dave Eugene Edwards, is erm. rather religious. It never really bothered me. He is quite open/vocal about it, but 16 Horsepower were never a 'Christian band', despite all the 'fire and brimstone' and 'sackcloth and ashes'. The religious overtones in Edwards' later work ultimately became too much for me, so I kind of lost interest. It's not the fact that he is religious, but the zeal of it that put me off.

    I think the same applies to the other members of 16 Horsepower. They broke up citing 'political and spiritual differences'.

    I guess ultimately if you find it necessary to stamp a religious label on your band, then you're not for me. Otherwise, I'l decide on a case by case basis.
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  5. #125
    zaxcv4321's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by kami-kun Go to original post
    But it did seem to me that you would boycott them because they have labelled themselves "christian music" and you said something like "music can't be christian, just as algebra isn't Islamic and physics isn't Catholic". My disagreement is this, we can in fact have christian music, as it isn't the music in itself that is christian, only its themes, which is quite possible when it comes to music. Or did I misunderstand you point?
    I would not dismiss or boycott any music of any kind based on belief or non-belief. In my opinion, to do so is to limit your options of what you might otherwise enjoy. It wouldn't be a crime, because people are usually good at seeking out the stuff that makes sense to them, but it is still a limiting approach.

    Art is art - if it makes sense to an audience, whether it is me or not, I am happy for people.

    And music can absolutely be Christian. But as you and others have pointed out, their lyrical content appears agnostic, so the labeling is done for some questionable reason - rcole likely dialed in the most plausible reason in my opinion.

    But back to the crux: it is easy to take a jab at modern pop-punk, hybrid country-rap, Christian metal. It is not a big deal. If someone is an atheist, an antitheist or just plain tired of people evangelizing their faith in the unverifiable, unreasonable or immoral, then a label will draw some scrutiny, and that is not a bad thing.
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  6. #126
    Gold_Jim's Avatar Senior Member
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    Maybe this clip from South Park will help.
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  7. #127
    Originally Posted by PRS_Rocker Go to original post
    Maybe this clip from South Park will help.
    Haha, yeah, did actually re-watch that episode yesterday.

    Dro45,
    Then we seem to be in agreement. I just got put off by you initial statement "I like my metal the same way I like my coffee: secular. ", and the posts after you. I also like my metal the same way I like my coffe: black.
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  8. #128
    zaxcv4321's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by kami-kun Go to original post
    Haha, yeah, did actually re-watch that episode yesterday.

    Dro45,
    Then we seem to be in agreement. I just got put off by you initial statement "I like my metal the same way I like my coffee: secular. ", and the posts after you. I also like my metal the same way I like my coffe: black.
    I will rephrase it:

    I like my politicians the same way I like my metal: secular
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  9. #129
    The_Working_Man's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Danny-Ramone Go to original post
    I do not know the answer to this, but reading up on Skillet the other day, I noticed there is a 'Christian album chart' in the US (actually, I just noticed we have one in the UK as well).

    How does that work then? When does something qualify for the Christian chart? Is it enough for the band to proclaim themselves Christian, or do they need to have specifically Christian lyrics? Do they need to be on one of a number of participating labels?

    Not trying to be funny, just wondering, as it seems a little murky.
    As has been discussed many times here, the labels used to define things are often inaccurate and are rarely useful for anything besides simplifying the thought process for those that need such help. What is or isn't 'metal', 'rock', 'punk', 'pop', 'grunge' etc is a never-ending debate of questionable value.

    Originally Posted by dro45 Go to original post
    This nails the point of my questions, but in a less threatening manner than the way that I asked. The main defense of Skillet in this thread against light mockery is that "they don't even sing about Christian stuff!" So why the label of Christian Metal? <snip>
    I don't think anyone is defending Skillet here, as much as questioning/challenging the label itself that you continue to use in describing their music. Honestly it seems a bit of a strawman to label their music as such and then commence to light mockery that they would make that type of music.

    In the discussions I alluded to above, I'm pretty sure I recall your agreement that trying to put music into the various categories does little more than incite tribalism, yet in this case you seem content to choose your side rather than thinking critically about the suitability of the label for the songs in question. I get that other people might be using that label as well, but it doesn't seem like you to blindly follow along without seeking to validate the initial conditions of the argument.
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  10. #130
    Originally Posted by kami-kun Go to original post

    Are your positions something like "it is quite al right to listen to "divinely" inspired music, as long as it doesn't label itself as such"? It just seemd to me as you were far to quick to judge them.
    If this bore you, do not feel obliged to answer.

    Well what happens when it does label itself? All of a sudden there is an implied morality to the content that needs to be adhered too. Take for example "Jesus Walks" by Kanye West there probably hasn't been a song that's used the name Jesus more times in 3 minutes in history. It's not even trying to hide it, and there is even the line, "If I talk about God my record won't get played". Now certainly that was a very popular song and did get played, and its main message is Jesus accepts everyone no matter their morality.

    But does "Christian Rap" accept Kanye? That's the problem. In fact society goes out of its way to even censor the contents of the album outright and produces two versions, one for Walmart and one for Tower Records(suspend reality). And which part of society is behind that? That's why even without listening to either Skillet or Kanye, some will reject it outright based on their principles.
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