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  1. #1
    DapperHayden007's Avatar Far Cry 3 Elite Member
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    Regarding Map Editor

    Hey Guys, I just thought I'd like to share something with you, We don't yet know if FC:P comes with a map editor, what we do know is if it does, it will be another SP only Map editor and the only multiplayer features on the game would be a publishing / sharing system, However, even if this game does not contain a map editor, I know 100% that it will return in a future title.

    Basically, Here's my theory if FC:P doesn't have an IGE.

    They DO have a team based purely for the Map Editor on a Far Cry game, Far Cry is going annual by the looks of it, with that in mind, they are going to do something similar to what Activision / Treyarch do on Call of Duty, one game has zombies, the other doesn't so my assumption is that the team dedicated to the map editor are working on one for the future Far Cry. However this does give the team time to make some changes to the Map Editor and it's features, which means we may have to skip a game for the map editor, but it comes with more features.

    When Myself, Mauro Robert, and Lillestoel were in Montreal they explained to us that for the development of Far Cry 4 they had made the team larger just for the game's map editor, now think of this, the people that work on the IGE tools, have their own room inside the studio from what I remember seeing, why would they remove such a used and cherished feature, which Ubisoft acknowledge is so big (hence why they were posting updates of how many user created maps their were on FC4 and various other statistics)

    The team are still their from what I am aware of and they may well be working on a map editor for Primal, but they could also be working on one for the next installment of Far Cry which by my understanding is likely to run off an updated version of the Dunia Engine, which makes sense to release Primal as that could make the next Far Cry game a longer wait than the transition from 3-4.

    Just a basic theory, however based off what I've been told while at Montreal last year the editor will be here for the long run as it is one of many staples of the Far Cry Franchise
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  2. #2
    You forget that particularly with Far Cry Ubisoft has a LONG history of blatant lies, misinformation through omission, and absolutely abysmal decision making with the editor and MP. We've all made it incredibly clear for the better part of a decade now what we want in the editor and MP. Ubisoft does not care about our feedback. They will stubbornly continue in their direction until they can start charging for MP map DLC.

    I like you Dapper and obviously I wasn't there in Montreal with you but I feel like you've all been manipulated. I'm sure 99% of the people working on the game want it to be the best it can be and would love to talk openly to the community and add the features we want. But theres absolutely no doubt that the key decision makers do not care at all what us map makers want.
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  3. #3
    I'm sorry but I dont care anymore. Ubisoft's mis-information about FarCry 4 was all to just keep your pre-orders. They KNEW if they were to release that information prior to launch, to people that would have bought this game day 1 (like me) JUST for the editor, would have probably reconsidered. This is all too funny after they wanted our feedback SOOOOoooo BAD on Far Cry 3 (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...POILERS-PLEASE).

    This company doesn't give a squat about the multiplayer/editor community, or their opinion. Far Cry 3 AND Far Cry 4 are both indication of that. Nobody cared. Nobody addressed it. They just stayed silent, hoping for all of it to pass.

    Jim Sterling did a video on this EXACT concept (Staying silent about mistreatment): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lvDL4cNdM

    And then.. There's the three of you that went to Montreal. It's a perfect example of what's wrong with Ubisoft on this subject. Rather than gauge to whole community on what works (even though we put all of that info in the thread where they practically "begged" for our feedback), they chose three seemingly random (I mean, how the heck did they even chose this? LOL) bring them to the studio, show them the holy grail, and put an NDA on the information so you three could SING IT'S PRAISES and be the Hype-Carrot-on-a-Stick for the information.

    "It's GREAT, guys!" and "It's more advanced!" we heard. For Dapper and Mauro, I dont have much an issue with it. You moved along. You know the decision sucked and you didn't try and sugar coat it. Lillestoel, on the other hand.. I lost all respect for that clown. He gleefully SHOUTED how Ubisoft listened to the community about vehicles returning to multiplayer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNKevp_DogI). "We WON! BLAAAH BLAAAH BLAAAAH". LOL "Congratulations community! :| :| I am shame.". He then goes on a campaign AGAINST those who were speaking out against Ubisoft for the poor decision. He buddied up AGAINST the community in my twitter debate with Alex Hutchinson as well, saying that we aren't entitled know about game features before it launches, even though Ubisoft expects us to pre-order, etc etc. It's amazing how Ubisoft's paid trip to their studio seemingly changed his opinion. I often wonder how he would have responded, had he not been asked to go.

    I havn't bought a Ubisoft product since Far Cry 3, I refuse to buy Far Cry 4 (unless Ubi wants to give it to me), and I refuse to talk about Ubisoft in a positive light on my Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR...dmnQOVFa14Lq1g), until they can show some respect to their customers, and their own friggin IP. They dont care what you want, they dont care about your opinion, but PLEASE preorder!

    Originally Posted by usmovers_02 Go to original post
    You forget that particularly with Far Cry Ubisoft has a LONG history of blatant lies, misinformation through omission, and absolutely abysmal decision making with the editor and MP. We've all made it incredibly clear for the better part of a decade now what we want in the editor and MP. Ubisoft does not care about our feedback. They will stubbornly continue in their direction until they can start charging for MP map DLC. I like you Dapper and obviously I wasn't there in Montreal with you but I feel like you've all been manipulated. I'm sure 99% of the people working on the game want it to be the best it can be and would love to talk openly to the community and add the features we want. But theres absolutely no doubt that the key decision makers do not care at all what us map makers want.
    Aaaaaaand we're done here. Took the words right from my mouth.

    Oh, and as far as the editor not being in Primal, I'm sure you're right. Why would they? They butchered FC4's Multiplayer (again, not listening to community), and now we're probably left with a multiplayer with spears, bows/arrows, and predatory animals. Basic or no structures, etc either. So the editor really wouldn't be necessary.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Viragoxv535 Go to original post
    That is partly true, there were some things we weren't allowed to talk, including day 0 bugs. But i really never cared about the multiplayer and had nothing to complain about the single player experience (FC3)
    That's a legit thing for them to NDA, though. Allowing people to talk about day 0 bugs would put the game in an improper light, knowing that a day zero patch would fix most of it (That doesn't excuse day zero bugs obviously). So that's fair. But why would they pay for 3 community members to come out and demo the Editor, just to gag them until POST-launch LOL. It's fishy.

    Oh, and I'm sure the Single Player for Far Cry 4 is neat. But Ubi soured my desire to buy it entirely when they did what they did.

    Also, here is Ubisoft LOVING all of our community feedback: https://youtu.be/Uoomkw6cQwo?t=15m49s

    "...And we DO try to read EVERYTHING that you send in, because it DEFINITELY helps us make better games!"

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  5. #5
    That's literally my point, though. They focus too heavy on the money they want to make, and not enough on the integrity of the product. I cant fault a business for wanting to make money. That's their goal. But what happened to customer satisfaction? What happened to buidling a foundation for your company made out of a satisfied customer base? Historically, looking at Ubisoft products and their issues, it's clear to see they dont care about the product, they dont care about the customer, etc. They just want the money, and then they can apologize about the problem later.

    What's worse, if Ubi cuts a feature, they blame the PLAYER for their reasons why, even though Ubi is squarely at fault. Example: When I asked Alex Hutchinson on why MP was cut from the Editor last year, his reply was that "the data shows that not many like the multiplayer, and only play it for the SP" (Paraphrasing). Hmmm.. That's funny, because you wanted feedback that you DIDN'T listen to for Far Cry 3. Suddenly, it's OUR fault that it was cut, and people didn't play it. Ubisoft cut vehicles, gimped sharing, followed up with terrible excuses as to why, and the multiplayer community FLATLINED only a couple months in. Far Cry 2's multiplayer was bumping for WAY longer. I wonder why that is? Far Cry 2 didn't have those problems.

    Same for Splinter Cell Conviction back in the day. They cut the Spies Versus Mercs multiplayer mode "Because it was too hard for newcomers to pick up and play" (again, paraphrasing). Those mods survived for YEARS after launch.

    Even worse now, seems Far Cry is going in the annual franchise direction, so my guess is, they're hoping multiplayer communities die within the year, hoping customer buy the new entry in the franchise.

    Oh, and DONT get me started on Uplay.
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  6. #6
    DapperHayden007's Avatar Far Cry 3 Elite Member
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    I'm not going to Deny that the Multiplayer was always the section of Far Cry that needs more work, especially considering if the MP was generalized to basic Game modes such as CTF, Domination, TDM, DM, etc it would actually be an amazing game if it had the ability to create a map playlist, search game lobbies, and actually go back to the Far Cry 2 roots of that section.

    I mean, thinking about it, Far Cry 2 was a game which was far from perfect, it had it's flaws, and undeniably many of them. What it did right was to expand the Multiplayer base of the games to make it simple and fun to join a game. I could Play Far Cry 2 online for Hours and never get bored of it because it was a game where once you know how to play it with each loadout, you learn everything about the weapons you are given, and it was great to play on a map which you created in a full lobby of players.

    Now if they were to create a re-release of Far Cry 2, with the FC4 gameplay, had everything upgraded to a nice colorful theme, but sticking to it's environmental goal, leaving the multiplayer systems the same as FC2, it would be one of those games that provide endless hours of fun. I'd pay good money for a FC2 HD game.


    The multiplayer is very important for the map editor too, because people want to show off their maps with other players online, and doing so on FC2 was just so easy, you just open up a lobby, invite the people you wanted into the game, and you can show them specific areas of the map and let them tell you what their opinion on the map was. It was just so easy, and gaining the communities opinion in that way is my most missed feature from a Far Cry game.

    However, The system in place with FC4 was really interesting, controversial, but still to me, interesting. I understand exactly why people were disappointed with the FC4 map editor because if the systems in FC3 for multiplayer were similar to those of FC2, then the game's Multiplayer would still have a map editor, because the reason people started making more SP maps in FC3 was because of the fact setting up a multiplayer game on your map was practically impossible for a long time.

    Based on that, I believe it's all just been a misled direction on Ubisoft's end, they were looking into the statistics when they should have been looking deeper into why people weren't playing MP maps on FC3 as much, But instead chose to make the decision off the statistics they had on the game.



    Many of you must feel like Ubisoft have just Screwed us all over, but if they did it was an unintentional move on their end, (I'm not backing them on this, just saying that this is what I believe may have happened)

    And I agree that Ubisoft aren't the best with getting messages across to them, the post explaining the camera issue on FC4 proves that for me.


    I believe that Ubisoft have a few choices to make which can make or break the Map Editor for the franchise: (Green - Make Red - Break IMO)

    - Enhance Singleplayer maps by bringing in things like AI Scripting, triggers and events, and going down the "Trials" direction which has made Trials games what they are today.

    - Revive the Multiplayer map editor by bringing in old systems from the likes of the Far Cry 2 lobby system and giving the community one more chance to show there's a demand for multiplayer maps when the correct systems are in place.


    - Remove the map editor entirely from the game series, creating even more uproar and disheartening more Elite fans of the series.

    I don't believe they intentionally meant to do what they have done over the last couple of games, but even so what they did made the Majority of the map community upset and redeeming themselves to that part of the community will take a lot of work.

    However, the reason I'm still with this game series is because I find a lot of enjoyment in the experience of making maps, so even though I was upset about some of the decisions, I was able to move on and keep doing what I love, making maps.

    Ubisoft know that the map editor is one of the cores of the franchise, and I know that they know it would be commercial suicide to remove such a feature from a full release game.

    You never know however, with the approach that Ubisoft are taking with Primal, the game may have a built in creation system where you gather supplies to create new objects which leads to being able to build structures (however unrealistic) in the singleplayer game, which in my opinion if something like this replaces a full-blown map editor i'd personally be quite disappointed.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by DapperHayden007 Go to original post
    The multiplayer is very important for the map editor too, because people want to show off their maps with other players online, and doing so on FC2 was just so easy, you just open up a lobby, invite the people you wanted into the game, and you can show them specific areas of the map and let them tell you what their opinion on the map was. It was just so easy, and gaining the communities opinion in that way is my most missed feature from a Far Cry game.

    You nailed it right here.

    And FC MP isn't the best. I get that. But to me, it just has to WORK. The Map Editor can do the rest of the work. FC2 proved that. The map/sharing system did the best work, now just improve the mulitplayer! Ubi fixed was wasn't broken!

    With FC, I felt great about spending a week making a map, throwing my map into a playlist of other peoples' maps, and playing that rotation all day with a full server the whole time. With FC3, I spent a week making a map I had planned for a while, and it only got 24 downloads thanks to Ubi's terrible rotation system. But a few must have liked it, because it got retooled like 3 times and then re-upped.

    As far as Ubi's intentions, I believe they had full intentions to do this. Alex Hutchinsons comments, their silence, and the fact that asked for FC3 feedback after we were disappointed by THAT game, is pretty telling to me.
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  8. #8
    angstik's Avatar Senior Member
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    From my point of view, FC4's map editor was pretty nice. Being able to create small scenarios was far more interesting than doing PVP on CoD map clones, even if some original maps were awesome. The map editor from FC4 truly gave more replayability to the game, far more than a multiplayer one from my point of view.
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  9. #9
    Farcryisdead's Avatar
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    It should be clear for anyone to see that ubisoft are taking far cry in a new direction, and that direction is single player only, no multiplayer, no map editor. this way they can half the number people needed to make any new far cry game and reduce costs and increase profit. it's a business like any other. i made a few maps in far cry 4, then uploaded/sent them to the map grave yard. then deleted the game from my hard drive. future far cry games will be great for people who love single player games, but not so good for map builders like myself. so it's back to far cry 2 for me. make some maps and host some matches
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  10. #10
    There has to be a game developer who sees the value in a multiplayer map editor! For me that is what made Far Cry so unique and it seems like it just keeps becoming less and less oiriginal. So AW, are you on PC? How are you hosting Far Cry 2 matches? The online support was disconnected (to my knowledge).
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