Just Played For Honor! | Forums

[MisterWillow]

It is a lot harder to describe than actually playing it, so any confusion about this is completely understandable.

Well that's good, 'cause I am very confused, so I'll probably neglect discussing this further until I get to play it. Thanks very much for settling things to the extent you were able, though.

Hopefully they'll announce beta details soon. *fingers crossed*

[Altair_Snake]

Thanks so much for solving the mistery, Willa!!! And you also informed us of the combos. They're just like what I thought! Except for the backing up part, which I don't think I saw yet, unless they're those backstepping attacks.

If you're late on the parry it doesn't matter if you were blocking the direction the attack came from, you take a risk to push your sword away from your body, if you miss then your open to the attack that you just failed to parry, so you'll take damage from that attack. If the defender simply fails the parry, and somehow the attack doesn't connect on the defender, then no the defender won't take damage, he'll just be stunned for the moment. By the way, the amount of time between too early and too late(that is, the only time you can successfuly parry) is very short, maybe 1 or 2 milliseconds. So although it sounds as if your too late to parry you'd simply block, the game still reads that you tried to parry and activates the missing parry animation. It is a lot harder to describe than actually playing it, so any confusion about this is completely understandable.

It really is confusing. Are you supposed to press heavy attack at the impact? If so, pressing it after the impact couldn't result in a whiff. You'd simply block it. Unless there is a missing animation after the impact, which would be an awkward block, but I don't think we've seen that so far.

So... could it be that you only see the late whiff if the attack misses? There was actually an example of that in one of the gameplay videos.

BTW, I'm glad it is a heavy attack. It makes things even worse for you, if you're early.

Nice to finally learn the meaning of the glowing swords. Thanks for that, too. I hope the glow can be disabled. It's cool to use early on. It's educational, much like most of the HUD is. But once people get used to it, they won't need it. And the game would be more immersive without it.
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@Willow

Hey, bruh. I could search the example of well timed blocks being crushed. But now that we have confirmation on the attack button thesis, do you still want it? Totally OK if you do!

As for that gif... I discarded two explanations and ended up agreeing with you that it is super weird. It does seem to reward an early input with a clash, even though the player's attack was just beginnig. That is not intuitive. Clashes tend to happen when both attacks end at the same time (in other games).

And in the first clash, when enemy's attack was actually almost ending, he got punished. He lost health and suffered a hit animation (though it actually seems a tad shorter than a clash animation). So, being hit when you're early in your attack execution is good for you. Being hit when you're late at it is bad. Both cases only clash if the attacks are in the same direction, I assume.

Although very counter intuitive, it's not necessarily bad. It actually sounds somewhat realistic. If you're just starting your attack, your weapon is still close to its guard position. So it makes sense that it is gonna work well in your defense. If you're late in your attack, that isn't the case, and you're likely to get hit, even if your weapon can make contact with the enemy's weapon.

The big deal here is that early inputs to parries don't seem like a bad business. This only worries me in regards to fast attack being parried easily, because there is no risk of going early.

Having said that a clash isn't delicious. It's far inferior to an actual parry. It is better than being crushed (by a strong attack). And only a little worse than blocking a fast attack (this little can become a very relevant if your enemy's style is a little faster than yours).

I think once people figure it out we will see lots of clashes as a result of missed parries - a particularly good business against strong attacks, but not so good against fast ones. It still seems a little too good against fast ones, though, imho. But as Willa said, parrying fast attacks seemed very hard. As long as it is, we should be fine. And clashing against fast attacks instead of blocking them is bad for you. Yeah... I think it will be fine. Sorry for the rambling.

[Dead1y-Derri]

I also asked Emile (SpaceElephant) via twitter about the parry and he did confirm that the way I described the parry, is the way that it works.

So you press L2 and just after the person attacks the window of opportunity to perform the parry comes and you attack, swords then meet and then the attacker is momentarily open for further attacks but can regain control quickly.

[MisterWillow]

I could search the example of well timed blocks being crushed. But now that we have confirmation on the attack button thesis, do you still want it? Totally OK if you do!

Yes, please. Just curious what you're talking about.

And in the first clash, when enemy's attack was actually almost ending, he got punished. He lost health and suffered a hit animation (though it actually seems a tad shorter than a clash animation). So, being hit when you're early in your attack execution is good for you. Being hit when you're late at it is bad. Both cases only clash if the attacks are in the same direction, I assume.

I suspect the reason the defender was late on their attack was because they were recovering from the stagger and barely got the attack off. It's interesting to know that you can be staggered for the first heavy attack and yet have enough time between that and the follow-up to launch an attack of your own. I guess it would make sense, in case you didn't want to block the second heavy attack as well (especially if you're low life and can't afford the chip damage), and wanted to dodge instead, but it makes me wonder if you would be able to sneak a fast attack in that gap.

I also asked Emile (SpaceElephant) via twitter about the parry and he did confirm that the way I described the parry, is the way that it works.

So you press L2 and just after the person attacks the window of opportunity to perform the parry comes and you attack, swords then meet and then the attacker is momentarily open for further attacks but can regain control quickly.

You mean R2? Shouldn't you already be in 'guard mode' (have L2 held down)? If not, I'm going to be even more confused...

[Willaguy2010]

Yes, please. Just curious what you're talking about.



I suspect the reason the defender was late on their attack was because they were recovering from the stagger and barely got the attack off. It's interesting to know that you can be staggered for the first heavy attack and yet have enough time between that and the follow-up to launch an attack of your own. I guess it would make sense, in case you didn't want to block the second heavy attack as well (especially if you're low life and can't afford the chip damage), and wanted to dodge instead, but it makes me wonder if you would be able to sneak a fast attack in that gap.



You mean R2? Shouldn't you already be in 'guard mode' (have L2 held down)? If not, I'm going to be even more confused...

What he means is that you hold L2 to engage the duel, then when your window of opportunity to parry is there, you attack(heavy attack), thus initiating a parry.

[Dead1y-Derri]

What he means is that you hold L2 to engage the duel, then when your window of opportunity to parry is there, you attack(heavy attack), thus initiating a parry.

Yes,

I typed that out on my phone and it failed sending the first time and so I quickly rewrote it and made a typo. I think though you can do it with both light and heavy attacks and I think that can result in how forceful the parry is but I could be wrong, I'm speculating on that part.

[MisterWillow]

What he means is that you hold L2 to engage the duel, then when your window of opportunity to parry is there, you attack(heavy attack), thus initiating a parry.

Sorry, you're right. I think I read what Derri wrote too fast and thought they meant you press L2 in time with the attack. Read it again, and understand it now. My fault.

[Dead1y-Derri]

Sorry, you're right. I think I read what Derri wrote too fast and thought they meant you press L2 in time with the attack. Read it again, and understand it now. My fault.

Actually, I read what I wrote and was confused myself, that was what I was meaning, you hold L2 engage in the dual and then just after the person attacks you attack.

Sorry for the confusion, I should have made my post much clearer.

[Willaguy2010]

When I aksed the dev how to parry, he said to heavy attack just as your opponent's blade is about to hit yours, I asked if this could be done if my opponent does either heavy or light attacks. He said that while it's harder to parry a light attack, you can still parry both. Then I asked if I wanted to parry a light attack do I use the light attack button to parry, and he said that the heavy attack button is always used for any parries, not the light attack button.

[Altair_Snake]

Yes, please. Just curious what you're talking about.

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Just to recover the point: my idea was that timed stick motions were not the way to perform deflections, because I had seen late (well-timed) motions being crushed... and early ones (bad-timing) resulting in deflections.

At 2:58 a late one gets crushed. There are many similar examples where the guy gets hit by a heavy attack and barely has time to parry the follow up. However the timing isn't super strict. 4:26 is the most extreme example I found. That is as late as it gets, pretty much. And there are examples of Oni performing deflections with much earlier guards than that, such as in 3:40 (and other earlier ones).

It is important to consider the Oni, because they have the neutral guard. If you release the stick,so you can flick it at the right moment, we can see it. These examples above are evidence that timed flicks were not the way to perform deflections. Anyways... I'm glad we finally got the answer - well-timed heavy attacks.

it makes me wonder if you would be able to sneak a fast attack in that gap.

I wondered that, too. I was pleased to see that you cannot.

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5:54. And it wasn't the only example I found. I assume the same applies to fast-fast-strong comboes. These last hits can still be parried, though.

The logic of the flow of battle (who can act first after doing what) seems very similar to Soul Calibur's. This makes me very happy and I (still) intend to make a thread about it. I'm gathering references right now.

When I aksed the dev how to parry, he said to heavy attack just as your opponent's blade is about to hit yours, I asked if this could be done if my opponent does either heavy or light attacks. He said that while it's harder to parry a light attack, you can still parry both. Then I asked if I wanted to parry a light attack do I use the light attack button to parry, and he said that the heavy attack button is always used for any parries, not the light attack button.

Awesome! Crystal clear! Thanks again!
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And back to the topic of early inputs for deflections resulting in clashes... That gif seemes to be a freak occurence. The same video just above, at 2:30 shows an instance where the early input gets you hit, instead of rsulting in clash. The directions were matching, but maybe it didn't work because it was the Up direction. Maybe the gimmicky clashes only happen if you're matching stance in one of the sides.

I've seen another example where where a clash doesn't happen when the late fighter is using a fast attack. And I think it was to a side. Also... normal clashes apparently don't happen when the attacks are from opposite sides. Even if the fighters land at the same time, both simply get hit - no clash. I had the reference for these two, but lost'em.