Just Played For Honor! | Forums

[Dead1y-Derri]

Same time as the opponent's attack connects (or same time as he throws the attack)? I'm assuming it's when it connects. I also assume you gotta be at the propper propper matching stance for the deflection to work.

The deflection you mean?

Were these deflection instructions in the tutorial?

And if you guys can confirm this stuff by asking the devs, please do!

And thanks a lot for this info, guys. It makes a lot of sense. I really can't think of a better way for the deflections to work. If you do it early, you get wacked.


How so?

Yes you have to be in the proper stance and then attack just as your opponent is attacking in order to parry your opponent like in the gif. above.

[Altair_Snake]

Thanks, bruh!

It was easy to get used to not attacking first and try to guard break while the enemy is attacking.

Did you pull that off? I was under the impression that guard breaks would simply fail if the enemy is attacking you, even if the guard break connects much sooner than the attack. In this case the guard break simply whiffs. It seems fair to me. Other games have used similar mechanics.

[Willaguy2010]

Thanks, bruh!


Did you pull that off? I was under the impression that guard breaks would simply fail if the enemy is attacking you, even if the guard break connects much sooner than the attack. In this case the guard break simply whiffs. It seems fair to me. Other games have used similar mechanics.

To be more specific you would want to wait after he tries landing a hit, but I meant just in his series of attacks. And yes it won't work if you do it in the middle of his attack.

[MisterWillow]

Yes you have to be in the proper stance and then attack just as your opponent is attacking in order to parry your opponent like in the gif. above.

I don't want to argue with you, especially since you've played it (and spoken to the devs) and I have not, but that doesn't make sense. If two opponents are attacking in the same stance, with the same attack, at the same time, how does the game decide who parries who? Wouldn't there be just as much a chance for you to be parried instead of your opponent, despite your every intention to parry them?

Also, there was video from Gamescom of this scenario happening, and the swords just bounced off each other (or both opponents being hit) without a parry. (taken from HERE at 4:35)

[Dead1y-Derri]

I don't want to argue with you, especially since you've played it (and spoken to the devs) and I have not, but that doesn't make sense. If two opponents are attacking in the same stance, with the same attack, at the same time, how does the game decide who parries who? Wouldn't there be just as much a chance for you to be parried instead of your opponent, despite your every intention to parry them?

Also, there was video from Gamescom of this scenario happening, and the swords just bounced off each other (or both opponents being hit) without a parry. (taken from HERE at 4:35)

Well I could be wrong, I can openly admit that as I was at a busy booth at the time and a lot happened in that day so I could be remembering it wrong.

When the dev showed me it was during the tutorial, as I had done the tutorial 4 times, he showed me the parry which wasn't actually in the tutorial I played but because I had done it so often he thought he'd show me a new move.

The dev who showed me at the time was in the attack stance but he might not have been actually blocking in the same direction but it did take him twice to do it. All I can remember very clearly was him saying attack just after your opponent attacks and your sword will glow when the window of opportunity is about but that window is so small I couldn't do it in the demo and I think I did it once in the battlefield.

I don't know if the above was a parry or not, while it did look similar, its too fast to tell. I'm pretty sure when it was demonstrated to me is that you locked swords for a second and the opponent was pushed back a little, whether that left him open to further attack is questionable as like I said I never managed to do it in the demo and in the heat of battle I wasn't really thinking.

I think what the confusion here is that people think a parry is blocking then attacking but that according to most definitions I've read online isn't actually what it would appear to be. A parry is a simple block or deflection of an incoming attack that can lead your opponent to be vulnerable but not always.

I'll see what I can dig up, I'll chat to some of the others who I know played the game at Gamescom.

[MisterWillow]

Well I could be wrong, I can openly admit that as I was at a busy booth at the time and a lot happened in that day so I could be remembering it wrong.

Again, not trying to argue, but I kind-of hope that you are, because that sort of parry system seems a bit inconsistent or finicky, at least from the standpoint of not having played it.

I don't know if the above was a parry or not, while it did look similar, its too fast to tell. I'm pretty sure when it was demonstrated to me is that you locked swords for a second and the opponent was pushed back a little, whether that left him open to further attack is questionable as like I said I never managed to do it in the demo and in the heat of battle I wasn't really thinking.

I think what the confusion here is that people think a parry is blocking then attacking but that according to most definitions I've read online isn't actually what it would appear to be. A parry is a simple block or deflection of an incoming attack that can lead your opponent to be vulnerable but not always.

I'm not sure if there's confusion over what a parry is, or what it looks like, just over how one is performed in game. And I don't think what I posted above was an example of one; it was just an instance of two swords colliding in an uncontrolled way---the opposite of a block or parry, which require control on the part of the defender---which is what I would expect to happen if both opponents attacked in the same direction at the same time.

For comparison

Parry:

Collision:

The dev who showed me at the time was in the attack stance but he might not have been actually blocking in the same direction but it did take him twice to do it. All I can remember very clearly was him saying attack just after your opponent attacks and your sword will glow when the window of opportunity is about but that window is so small I couldn't do it in the demo and I think I did it once in the battlefield.

Noticed in the 'parry' gif above that the defender's sword does glow red, but only after their swords came into contact, not before, which makes me even more confused. You can even refer back to the video the gif was taken from (around 5:08), if the gif isn't clear enough.

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I'll see what I can dig up, I'll chat to some of the others who I know played the game at Gamescom.

Thanks both to you and Willaguy for asking.

[Altair_Snake]

Willow, if we start to attack at the same time (using attacks of the same speed) our attacks will collide. If I press attack as your attack is about to connect, I parry you. These are very different things. "At the same time" can be a very confusing expression in this case. People might think it means dudes attacking at the same time, whereas it is actually one dude attacking at the end of the other dudes's attack.

The basic idea is that if I try to parry early, my character will try to attack and surely get hit by your incoming attack. So, I gotta try to time it well and lean towards timing it late, as there'd be no consequence for it - my character would be in the middle of the block animation, so my late input wouldn't do anything.

AC1 has a similar logic for the counter attacks. Try it early and you get hit. Try it late and you still block OK. The difference in For Honor is that instead of a parry whiff, the chatarcter will make himself vulnerable by attacking, which prolly looks better, since parry whiffs tend to look over the top.

If this really is the case I'm very happy with the system. I think it will make fast attacks very hard to parry. And this is very important to keep spacing important in the meta-game. Remember that parries allow a guaranteed hit. If dudes could parry fast attacks easily, the result would be spamming guard breaks and parries, only attacking when it's guaranteed, so you could avoid being hit by guaranteed strikes yourself. This would result in fighter's ignoring range. EA MMA suffered from a slightly similar problem.

[MisterWillow]

Willow, if we start to attack at the same time (using attacks of the same speed) our attacks will collide. If I press attack as your attack is about to connect, I parry you. These are very different things. "At the same time" can be a very confusing expression in this case. People might think it means dudes attacking at the same time, whereas it is actually one dude attacking at the end of the other dudes's attack.

Then why didn't the second collision in the second gif result in a parry? That seems like an unnecessarily small window for you to time an attack, and, again, seems finicky, or like it would be inconsistent.

I still feel like it's timing the stick movement, rather than an attack. It seems like it would be the more intuitive mechanical choice, and if this isn't the case, I would like to know how this happened. (taken from HERE at around 0:40)



You mean to tell me that the defender saw an attack coming from a person he wasn't locked on to, attacked at the instant the blow was about to land to parry, then immediately re-focused on two other opponents (the one he's locked on to and another) and attacked at the instant both their attacks were about to land?

I think it makes more sense that he saw one attack coming, shifted his stance in time with the off-screen blow to parry, then shifted his stance again, since it appeared the other attacks were coming from a different direction, so he had to or get hit, and because of the rapid succession of attacks the shift in stance was in time with the second attack(s) anyway, resulting in that being parried as well.

Maybe he was a dev, so he knew what he was doing, and once more, this is coming from the perspective of someone who hasn't played it, so maybe it will become clear when I get my hands on it, but I honestly find the second scenario more likely.

The basic idea is that if I try to parry early, my character will try to attack and surely get hit by your incoming attack. So, I gotta try to time it well and lean towards timing it late, as there'd be no consequence for it - my character would be in the middle of the block animation, so my late input wouldn't do anything.

AC1 has a similar logic for the counter attacks. Try it early and you get hit. Try it late and you still block OK. The difference in For Honor is that instead of a parry whiff, the chatarcter will make himself vulnerable by attacking, which prolly looks better, since parry whiffs tend to look over the top.

Assassin's creed also had a pretty large window for you to execute a counterattack comparative to the window apparently present in For Honor (again, reference the second collision in the gif). Also, we were talking in another thread about this, and you said you thought poorly of any system requiring exacting timing, citing latency.

Only in very extreme cases not mashing is better. These are cases of trully superb timing, but definitely not the kind of timing I wan in For Honor, since it's a complex melee game with 8 players. Latency matters more than usual and is harder to avoid (compensate) than in shooters. The more the stary from using sharp timing, the better.

The sort of timing that's attested to be required to attack in the same instant a blow is about to land would seem to be an issue, and yet:

If this really is the case I'm very happy with the system

So, which is it?

[LonesomeStrider]

Thank you for sharing the information!

I would be interested what hints you received from the Dev, while playing the Tutorial.
You already mentioned the 'Hit Guard Break Twice'. Where there any other features or little tricks?

Cheers!

Ituralde

[premiumart]

Then why didn't the second collision in the second gif result in a parry? That seems like an unnecessarily small window for you to time an attack, and, again, seems finicky, or like it would be inconsistent.

I still feel like it's timing the stick movement, rather than an attack. It seems like it would be the more intuitive mechanical choice, and if this isn't the case, I would like to know how this happened. (taken from HERE at around 0:40)



You mean to tell me that the defender saw an attack coming from a person he wasn't locked on to, attacked at the instant the blow was about to land to parry, then immediately re-focused on two other opponents (the one he's locked on to and another) and attacked at the instant both their attacks were about to land?

I think it makes more sense that he saw one attack coming, shifted his stance in time with the off-screen blow to parry, then shifted his stance again, since it appeared the other attacks were coming from a different direction, so he had to or get hit, and because of the rapid succession of attacks the shift in stance was in time with the second attack(s) anyway, resulting in that being parried as well.

Maybe he was a dev, so he knew what he was doing, and once more, this is coming from the perspective of someone who hasn't played it, so maybe it will become clear when I get my hands on it, but I honestly find the second scenario more likely.

I think i caught a moment in the first gameplay walkthrough that seemed like if you are locked onto a enemy and an attack comes it it automaticly changes to that enemy but that is total speculation.