Banned
Here goes again hahaha
Ok this time will will try to keep it alittle shorter and not too much of a deep hole lol.
To becoming or being a great builder , the key is simple i find and thats passion. This will shine through in people builds and will take shape once inside thier track. Building for just fun isnt the same i find and these are ones that end up having a great dl but no theme or no decor. To be honest i cant stand seeing someone making a great dl and then putting it out on show naked. Its pointless and just lazy assed building. If they cant be bothered to cloth the track then i cant be bothered to play it. You wouldn 't put your brand new art work in a shabby tattered frame or stick it to the wall with blue tack. as much as i believe the dl is the most important part of a track i also believe a fantastic dl is nothing with something to look good in. I was always taught to look the part , first impressions and the decor is your first impression. Tracks playabillity in track central is lets say 1 run for most and therefore can never be really judged , so if building on them terms then a track without decor or a shadey one at that is a rollex without a wrist to go on.
I think that building a great dl is to a degree based on how long you have played the game , your skill level increases and therefore gain the knowledge on obstacles and so forth , you can push this i find by searching out learning curves but overall if you play the game for lets say 2 years , you will no doubt be able to create a decent drivline without any trouble. I personelly think and i know this is not everyones thoughts but i personely think that to create a quality track you have to be able to build. Build i mean in the terms of creating a world or place that is real , authentic , use design in many art forms in creating space , atmosphere and lightining and different angles. In many ways creating a track is alittle like interior design , you have to learn how to create space without space , give illusion of greatnness . A fanatstic dl can be thrown down in a matter of hours but a whole experience cant be and i think the 2 are to completley different aspects but must go together tomake one. I agree you need to pivot the dl around the theme and so forth but i do think too many builders think that this is what is a quality track builder. All of the above mentions the dl and yes of course this is so , but really think about it , just exactly how much building goes into building a dl ? I dont disagree with people on the dl , i just think to many builders use the excuse that the dl is more important because they cant be bothered to spend hours creating a theme which track central can be blamed for and the lack of quality control judges.
For me the dl is not any more important than the world you enter into , If i enter a world and am faced with garbage from the off , i dont play it. The dl could be awsome , but im not really interested in playing a naked dl , i dont feel the passion in the builder. dont feel that they are trying to create something or even try so any enjoyment i could havehad in thier amzing dl is lost . This is different if its a completely different style of track though. I guess overall i think an awesome dl is nothing without a theme and great decor and a theme and its decor is nothing without a great dl. so to me they go hand in hand , one without the others nothing ( a waste of time and effort).
Animations - there is no rule to this , its prefference they only suggestion i would add is that if your going to make a track full of animations , make the realistic as much as possible and not random. If its going to be an animated track , show this from the start maybe using a flick down start or any animation that works as soon as the counter says go. This to me indicates an animated track and i think to a degree other animations dont seem so random. Always give reason for the animation , use effects to show the entire animated sequence and what would happen in reality even if you think that the camera would have passed.
Custom objects - 150% try to make these , the fantastic thing about this is that no custom object can be said not to look like what you intend it to look like. Its custom and thats that
Imagination - If you dont have imagination then dont bother buildingjoke of course. Some find it hard though but dont worry there is a vast amount of resources everywhere to help you expand this. The internet , movies , books , kids cartoons , games you have played. There is no limit to creating , nothing is to far fetched , nothing is unreal.
Reality - keep your track as real as can be , i suppose this is more prefference but riding on electrical wires just to me is silly and things like this are for me a no no. but again its prefference i suppose.
feedback and advice - i personelly take this and mould it to my own style , i find that just following the advice will give a builder the same outcome as the previous builders therefore becoming the same formula.
As i have been progressing as a builder i use to wonder how builders got that flowy feel to a track , more so on technical tracks rather than smooth fast track which are much easier to achieve. I tried to explain how i did this ( well try to anyway ) in my tracks but it didnt come across well so i will try alittle more clearer maybe using a different angle.
When i did martial arts , my teacher whome was a member of the england team use to brake down the movements into a set patterns , i dont mean the patterns u use for grading but combinations. Although each one was different , it conisisted of the same amount of movements say 4 , faint , kick , punch punch sort of thing and kept this as a rule to learning and gaining a pattern in each onslaught of combinations. I find this is similar with any flow you are trying to achieve. If you limit your obstacles to the same patterns lets say in sets of 4 then this i feel gives a flow which doesnt stand out or noticed until you eventually are very competant with the track. Its someway similar to a chorus in a song , the same amount of lines same words in which is easily remembered because its a pattern. thus giving a feeling of a flow on even technical tracks. Ok this doesnt always work and there is other things to consider but it does work for me and give each obstacle a rounder feeling shape and a continuous motion. doesnt have to bee the same manouvers just the same amount of moves. I find keeping this conistant throughout a track can give a fast and flowy feeling to a track even tho it may not look like it.
Also whilst i am speaking of this , i test each obstacle with a verble count or words. Again lets say four and if the manoveures follow the pattern of the verble words spoken in time then this also gives me a good idea that it should work hahaha , when i say pattern i mean like the four manouvers should be spread evenly over the course of the obstacle thus giving a flow. I feel that if the pattern is uneven , and you have finished 3 quaters of your count or words speach by the first 10% of the obstacle then that leave the 90% of the obstacle to one movement thus making a long stretched out even pattern. Sorry if i sound alittle wieird haha but this is how i do it and yes my dls arent up to scratch but with this i find they have imporved. Im not taking all the credit mind , i have a few quality builders to thank for that and shall do when i can think of an appropriate way.
All the above is just my thoughts on great builders and stuff and thought i would add some of the way i do things so others may try , or at least it will encourage people to find thier own way that suits them. great post guys
I know i said not i would do my best not to make it long hahaha well i did honest.
Senior Member
The line is everything. I'll ride a track made of floating objects over an empty sea if the line's challenging and I've got some times to beat. You could build some fully realised world with a working weather system and independent AI wildlife but if the line's crap I'll only ride it a couple times for the visuals. As most have said already though, wrap that world around a line suited to the difficulty and you've got a winner.
I think sometimes you have to decide who you ( YOU...I don't build ) are building for, the snobby, elite in here or the masses ( lol, maybe a new word's in order ) in TC who don't, won't and probably never will subscribe to the ideals written here.
Who remembers when poor old TweedHead joined the forum.
Senior Member
Eevan made a track today that took a little over 2 hours. It's not fully realised obviously in that time frame, certainly hasn't got all the bells and whistles that you mention Joe, but the theme is pleasant enough and sits nicely with the line.It doesn't have to have all that of course, but to show at least a bit of effort goes a long way. It was a good build, still better than most of the junk in TC.
The ones who don't, won't and probably never will subscribe to the ideals written here won't get much of a look in from me, and won't obviously aspire to improve their work.
But eh, I must be a snob. Probably been spoilt by the builders that do take the time to put some effort into their work.
Differing opinions, is all.
Member
Great thread Nova.
Not sure what I can add that hasn't been put more eloquently by others but here go's..
DRIVING LINE- As other's have said the driving line is THE single most important part of any trials track. It is also the most difficult part to get right. A good driving line alone doesn't make a great track, but a bad one can kill even the most beautiful of tracks. Everyone has a different opinion on what makes a good line, for me it has to be enjoyable to ride first and foremost. It should also be consistent in difficulty, it is annoying when on a medium speed run track you suddenly hit a hard/extreme obstacle that stops you in your tracks with no warning. It also has to be smooth, there are plenty of tools in the editor to achieve this. If you want me to ride over a big rock then make it smooth, if iam riding up a steep rocky incline then I want to know that my rear tyre isn't suddenly going to get flipped up by some invisible bump on the rock's surface. Custom collision's are your friend, use them. This also applies to transitions between surfaces. As an example if you have a ramp at an acute angle to the ground then use a custom collision or a curved ramp to smooth that transition. With a little time care and patience you can position these so that it doesn't ruin the illusion of actually riding on the actual object.
CAMERA ANGLES- Iam not a fan of custom camera angles at all, But used in the right situation they can be effective. Saying that the only time they should be used in my opinion is on huge jumps or for fail/death cams. Please do not position the camera behind the rider, ever. It is not fun and the moment this happen's on a trial's track I will stop riding it. There are a few builders that can actually use custom camera's effectively, but unless you know what you are doing then leave the camera at the default setting.
OBJECTS BETWEEN THE RIDER/BIKE AND CAMERA- This is another pet hate of mine,You should be able to see your bike/rider at ALL times.I am not spiderman, I do not have a spider sense of the position of my bike when I cant see it. However,you should have objects between the rider and the camera to give the track some depth and to give the feeling of actually being in the world rather than riding in front of the world. I find this a hard thing to achieve myself but again with a little bit of time and effort it can be done. But as I said this should NEVER block my view of my rider.
CHECKPOINTS- In my opinion, not having a checkpoint in your track does not make it more difficult, it just makes it frustrating. This is another thing that will make me quit a track. There is no excuse for not having well placed checkpoints in a track. While I consider myself a decent rider and during speedrun's I will always restart the track from the beginning, you have to remember there are rider's of all different skill level's playing this game. Rider's that cannot complete tracks without checkpoints, consider them and not just the skilled rider's. This lead's me too checkpoint placement. This can be extremely difficult to get right but it can be done, The biggest problem with placement is if you fault and restart from a checkpoint can you make the next jump or obstacle smoothly, If not then move it, even if you have to tweak the driving line slightly to achieve this then do it.
TESTING- Test, test and test. Testing what you are building is so important, and unfortunately you can see on so many tracks that people haven't. Test from the start on a complete run, test from every checkpoint, then test it again. I know I spend too much time test running my track's but at least I know when I release it everything work's. I hate it when I see a track on TC that has fix #4 on it.There is no excuse for having to release the same track 4 times because you didn't test it properly. And again you can guarantee that I wont even consider running that track. There are of course times when a glitch can happen through no fault of your own but these are few and far between. If you can get other people to test your tracks then that can be a great help as someone else will always notice something you may have missed. Another little tip is with this generation of consoles we now have the ability to record clips ourselves, this can be great when you don't have anyone to test for you. Run your track, record it then watch it. I can pretty much guarantee you will spot something you didn't when your actually running it.
LIGHTING- Many people don't even consider lighting when building a track. But good lighting can transform the look of a track. But be careful, too many lights can kill the performance on a track so easily. One of the best tips anyone gave me was to turn off the bike headlight, this can be a source of so many issue's so unless you absolutely need it then turn it off.
DECOR/THEME- I'm a big fan of great decoration in a track. Many people look at the base objects in the editor and think I cant make anything with that, but you can. Some of the things people put in their tracks astounds me, the imagination some people have is amazing. And that is all you really need, imagination. Admittedly not everyone can create great custom objects, but give it a try. You never know what you will create, don't just rely on the base objects. Use the replay camera options as well, zoom in and look what people have used to make something, I promise you some of the things people use will blow your mind. But also a word of warning, the theme and decoration on a track should never take precedence over the driving line, it should work in harmony with it but never dictate it.
One more thing, if there is anyone reading this who wants to try building a track but thinks they cant, you can. We all had to start somewhere and only by trying did many of us get to where we are today. There are numerous videos available on youtube showing how to use the editor, but also don't be afraid to ask other builders for help and advice. There are plenty of us that are willing to help people build better tracks. Pass on the things you know, remember when you started building and saw things that amazed you. Remember that yearning you had to make something stunning on a track, now remember there are people like that out there right now, help them because we will all benefit from it. This is how I learned the things I know and I thank all the guys over the years that were willing to take the time to share their knowledge
Senior Member
Your just honest bud,and I'm with you mate..Originally Posted by Rudemod 69 Go to original post
The ones who don't, won't and probably never will subscribe to the ideals written here won't get much of a look in from me, and won't obviously aspire to improve their work.
But eh, I must be a snob. Probably been spoilt by the builders that do take the time to put some effort into their work.
Differing opinions, is all.
Senior Member
Don't take it as a knock Rude lol. We are the snobby, elitists in here comparatively. The building community has always had these unwritten rules for track building and made posts like these since HD. Attempts to bring newcomers into the fold so to speak, we've always been in the minority though. RL themselves even get flak when they like/promote something that doesn't meet with the communities high standards. They've given us a bike game with a box of Lego in it. Some people enjoy the Lego more than the bike game and that's reflected in their tracks.
I dunno, I'd love to see everyone put as much detail into their lines and deco as MPC for example but I think we're way past the days where TC on any platform's gonna be producing gems daily.
Edit: I remember playing Ramchandra's tracks at the start of Evo, seeing folks I liked talking shiz about him ( not you Rude ) flooding the feeds, while I'm sat there thinking ' this guy knows flow '. Now he knows deco too lol. I'll play most anything and check it for fun, if it's pretty it's a bonus
Senior Member
Your right Joe.. Attempts like these threads have been and gone, over the years.. It's a shame really, because if it got enough input, and we could all work together to compile a guideline, maybe it could get a sticky and hopefully go on to help people.. You don't have to be a builder to know what makes a decent build too, so ALL and ANY input would be great..
You never know though bud..
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