1. #21
    B8ZZ's Avatar Member
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    En0- or Shifty, will the DLC be up for pre-load on Xbox One?
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  2. #22
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Hello,

    Originally Posted by B8ZZ Go to original post
    En0- or Shifty, will the DLC be up for pre-load on Xbox One?
    I don't think there will be pre-load. The data are contained in the patch that will go live around the same time as the digital stores update (details still in discussion with Microsoft and Sony).

    Regards,
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  3. #23
    mutetus's Avatar Trials Developer
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    Funny, my son's Xbox and tablet didn't have my credit card number preinstalled.
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  4. #24
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Hello Kn000t,

    First, thanks for the honest feedback. It's very important for us. I am going to try to answer your post to give more visibility.

    Originally Posted by kn000t Go to original post
    I'm very disappointed.
    You deliberately cut a great feature from Trials Evolution: the customization right down to the last detail of the bikes and rider. I don't know if this happened due to missing time in order to reach the deadline for release or if you thought it wasnt that important to the players or you always had a payoption in your minds.
    So, I was not on the project when this decision was made (several years ago), from what I understood, it mainly comes from a problem of scope (it's not always to meet the deadline, it can also be to fit in the budget constraint). This decision was not made with what you call the "pay option" because the virtual currency came in the discussion years after. I don't think there is a connection between boths.

    But the players voiced their opinion very clearly, that they are disappointed in the lack of customization. Your response was as always something like: "We hear you, we listen to you, we're not done with fusion, its work in progress".
    Now with all the patches and DLCs released so far, not much happened regarding customization. Just some full body kit and helmets were added.
    That's correct, I am just going to precise what has been added:
    The DLC contained 6 objects I believe (3 objects for the rider, 3 objects for the bikes).

    The free update number 9, in June, added the female rider with 2 outfits for her.

    It feels the same since release of Fusion. There was a thread in the old forums what players would like to see in a future Trials game. And the wishes mentioned most often were: fix tireglitches, fix leaderboards (glitched scores), fix broken replays.
    And then came Fusion. Tire glitches are worse than Evo, glitched leaderboards were the same, broken Replays were still a thing at release (couldnt even slomo) and MP wasnt there. When skimming through the forums it seems there are still bugs that are not fixed since release.
    The tire glitch: It will never be fixed, it's not fixable. We stated it a long time ago.
    The glitched leaderboards are fixed now even if it has been far too long to get fixed. If there are still problems with the leaderboards, please open a thread on the support section of the forum, I'll help to see what we can do.
    The broken replays: 99% of the replays are working, but yes you can find some that don't work. It's a really complicated feature that really few games implement it with the flexibility we give, so it comes with a cost of some defect. It particularly hard to keep working because of the number of different cases and the fact we keep working on the game (meaning all replays have to work with all versions). I am personally satisfied with how the replays work currently and with the camera replay we added, I think this feature is even better than it has been on previous Trials game (also, we reintroduce the slow mo feature during spring when it was finally working).

    I want to make clear: It's not in our vision to make a game totally bug free. The games became more and more complex and making them totally bug free would require us to use some methods (NASA style) that would skyrocket the price of the games. So, a totally bug free game shouldn't be expected. However, there are acceptable bugs and non-acceptable bugs. We do our best to fix the non-acceptable ones (the ones that totally break the game / the experience).

    And now you release advanced rider and bike customization as a "have to pay" option for a game we already payed for.
    The sad thing is that a lot of the skins are already in the patch files for the last big patch, but we just aren't able to equip them. So its not even brand new content, but stuff you kept back. Some players have invested so much blood, sweat and tears in the game, have earned millions of ingame dollars and arent even able to spend them on new stuff unless they pay for acorns.
    Thats just not fair.
    So, I would like first to mitigate the "have to pay" expression. Players will be able to get some of it without paying, just by playing some tournaments and participating to some community events for example. But it's correct that players won't be able to unlock everything without paying anything probably.

    Yes, players payed to get access to the game and get the features and content that were in and we released a tons of free updates. At some point, we also have to make sure the project is profitable, so we have to give a way to players who want to support us more to be able to do so. You can check my previous posts in the different thread where I explain why I think Trials Fusion is one of the best deal (value for money) on the market.

    For the "it's already in the files of the last patch", to be honest, I don't exactly know what is in the datapack of the last patch (some of them probably are in because they were the firsts ready) but I don't think it changes anything to the question. They are brand new in the sense that nobody got access to them and they are ready for some but we still have to adapt menus and all the features around to make them work in game. So, the ones that will release next week are brand new: nobody saw them, nobody used them. Also, even if they were produced some time ago, they still impact our budget and we still have to make sure the budgets are balanced.

    For the ingame dollars, there has been a proposition from iBlubbil that we are looking at and we'll get back about that in a few weeks to propose something.

    So, even if I can understand why you think "it's not fair", I will disagree with this statement. I think we're really fair and we do our best for the players to have the best deal. However, if we want to have nice things, we need to understand that not everything can come for free but it's always in our goal to give access to as many things as possible to as many players as possible.

    Thanks again to share your feedback, it's really appreciated.

    Eno
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  5. #25
    VEGASTRASH's Avatar Senior Member
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    Eno, in regards to the outfits and making the game profitable...etc. I don't see anything wrong with having an option to buy these...but are you actually saying a game that has generated 50 million dollars in sales can't be profitable without charging people for bike upgrades and rider outfits? Charging $5-$10 for an outfit is quite high for a game that sells for $20...as Beard stated. If people are buying the game..shouldn't they be able to legitimately earn these items? And not allowing actual money in the game to be used for these items is a bit odd. It's a way of pulling more money from the loyal fans. You play a game for a year straight, accumulate over a million imaginary dollars and then are told, "oh...you actually need acorns for outfits...not money you've been earning along the way."
    It's pretty amusing to say the least.
    I'm glad some new content is coming our way and there are many positives to Fusion, but let's just call the acorn system what it is...a cash grab. It would be a little better if outfits were $2 or $3....something reasonable. And why not let the player actually earn the currency in game to get whatever they want? Remember how game progression used to be.
    On another note, you have a community who creates content for your game for free...that will be used in game. Why not return the favor and give content to your loyal fan base?
    I recall Trials HD doing ok...3 million units sold roughly? No charging for outfits, tremendous dlc value....seemed to do ok. Was this game not profitable?

    Micro transactions are a sign of the times. Corporations will tell you game development costs are too much now, etc...but it just comes down to human greed. Much like television advertising increasing over the years or numerous logos posted at sporting events. I'd prefer to be told...we want to make as much money as possible and if selling outfits allows for this...we are ok with it.
    Just tell me that next time.
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  6. #26
    I'm going to quickly speak my opinion here (not meant to insult or hurt anyone)

    I think the Microtransactions aren't going to ruin the game. I generally don't really like that sort of stuff, but there are a few things to be considered:

    1. You only pay for purely cosmetic changes! So I have to ask: What are you *****ing about?! Calm the **** down. Noone's forcing you to buy anything. You sound like a bunch of little crybabies...

    2. Let's be honest, we DID get quite a lot for free, didn't we?

    3. You paid 20 $/€/BP for that game. 20!!!! 40 with 6 DLCs included!!! Are you insane to complain about that?! Every other company would have charged you 60 for the "main" game and probably another 30 for the season pass! And yes, alright, multiplayer should have been included from the get go and there were some bugs here and there, but COME ON!!?!?!

    4. I haven't played a game for such a long time since COD4, so in terms of value for money? I think I'm doing alright...

    That set aside, I think a way to convert earnt ingame money to Acorns (on anything around a 100/1 to 1000/1 ratio) would be appropiate, but we'll see what happens there.

    And of course, now all those posts will be popping up saying "but in Evo..." "but in Trials HD...". GET OVER IT! Times are changing. This is a completely different game than before. In 1990 you could buy a Volkswagen Golf for... gee, I don't know... 10,000? Now it's 2-3 times as much, yes. But it's better than the old one. It doesn't break down as much, it doesn't rust away right under your ***, it goes faster.... "but back then it was much cheaper! booohooo"

    I'm not trying to crawl up Redlynx' bottom here, not trying to defend them, or anything, just saying stop complaining so much, stop only seeing the "bad" things Trials Fusion brought you and start looking at the good things. You are all crying on a very high, first-world-problem kinda level, don't you think?

    (And don't you dare coming on here with 20 days of ingame play time saying "there's nothing good about it, most terrible game in history, blablabla...". I suppose if it was so bad you wouldn't have played it for that amount of time, would you?)
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  7. #27
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Hello Vegastrash,

    Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it's worded with a strong opinion but still respectfully. I will take the time to answer things one by one.

    Originally Posted by VEGASTRASH Go to original post
    are you actually saying a game that has generated 50 million dollars in sales can't be profitable without charging people for bike upgrades and rider outfits?
    No idea where this figure comes from and what it represents actually. Also, it needs to be related to the cost of the project. I am just saying that we don't lose money but we're not making a huge margin neither

    Charging $5-$10 for an outfit is quite high for a game that sells for $20...as Beard stated.
    To be honest, we had this exact discussion inside the team. And there is this question: What's the logical dependency between the price of an item and the price of the game? It's not obvious and there are different opinions inside the team about that.

    The vision was to add a good amount of objects and to cover a large price range to cover the different profiles of players. If you believe an object is too expansive, just don't buy it. There are cheaper objects and there will be sales/discounts from time to time.

    Making an object quite expensive also set its value as "something rare" / "something that most of other players won't have" and it's what some players are looking for. If we set everything at the same price and at a low price, we wouldn't be able to satisfy this type of demand.

    If people are buying the game..shouldn't they be able to legitimately earn these items?
    They should be able to earn the items that are in the offer they paid for. These items are part of another offer.

    And not allowing actual money in the game to be used for these items is a bit odd. It's a way of pulling more money from the loyal fans.
    let's just call the acorn system what it is...a cash grab.
    The way it's worded (cash grab/pulling more money) makes it look like it's really greedy (greedy in the sense "excessive").
    We are not forcing loyal fans to put more money. If they don't want to put more money, they can keep playing the game, having access to track central and all the features without spending more money. It's totally optional, so I don't think it's greedy.

    Instead of using the same expression as you, I'd use the word "monetization" which simply means: you propose a product/service that people appreciates, you find a way to recover your budget for. I don't think we can be blamed for that.

    You play a game for a year straight, accumulate over a million imaginary dollars and then are told, "oh...you actually need acorns for outfits...not money you've been earning along the way."
    It's pretty amusing to say the least.
    The ingame money you spend doesn't pay the salary of the team who develops the game
    We made tons of free updates and also some content (female rider for example and some XSX / SX tracks). But at some point, we need to refresh the stream of revenue or we'll have to stop earlier the support. We're still working on another very good free feature update for later this year and we have to find a way to finance it. (it's more complicated than that but it's the idea)

    Also, when iBlubbil came to propose something for the in-game money that seems like something we're able to do and that improve the user experience, we acknowledged we received the proposition and that we'll get back to that in a few weeks. So, save your imaginary million dollars, they'll be used as well.

    And why not let the player actually earn the currency in game to get whatever they want?
    Because it decreases the monetization.

    On another note, you have a community who creates content for your game for free...that will be used in game. Why not return the favor and give content to your loyal fan base?
    The fact we are using this virtual currency is also giving us the flexibility to be able to give some when we want to who we want (like for community activities, great builders, community event organizers,etc...). We don't know yet what and how we'll do it but it's clearly considered. However, it concerns a really really small part of the players.

    I recall Trials HD doing ok...3 million units sold roughly? No charging for outfits, tremendous dlc value....seemed to do ok. Was this game not profitable?
    So it's hard for me to talk about it because I didn't work on it at all. Trials HD launched 6 years ago. At the industry level, it's an eternity. I don't know the budget for Trials HD, but to compare it to Fusion budget, I think we're talking about a factor 10 as a rough estimate.

    Micro transactions are a sign of the times. Corporations will tell you game development costs are too much now, etc...but it just comes down to human greed. Much like television advertising increasing over the years or numerous logos posted at sporting events. I'd prefer to be told...we want to make as much money as possible and if selling outfits allows for this...we are ok with it.
    Just tell me that next time.
    In the last 10 years, the budget of games production exploded for a lot of reasons: HD came in, quality is always raising, games are always bigger, costs of everything raised, etc...). But the price of sale is roughly the same (60/70 euros depending on you country). How many industries kept their prices stable during that period? I don't know any. The number of gamers (console/PC owners I mean) also increased but not by the same proportion and the number of games released every month also increased. So that's more expensive and there is more competition. The projects need to remain profitable (highly profitable for the most risky ones who spend more than 50 millions) and that's why there are season pass, DLCs and micro transaction. (there is a great article about tha ton Rock Paper Shotgun or Kotaku... can't find it anymore but if someone knows what I am talking about, please link ) Then, there are games who do that right and games who do that wrong and it's a point of view. I explained mine earlier in this thread and that's the one we're following in our design and communication.

    I can't speak for all Ubisoft because it's a 10 000 company people, but I can speak for Trials Fusion. None of our decision is driven by "making as much money as possible" but each of our decision takes into account the budget we have and the money we make. If it was the case, we'd have done a lot of things differently. The idea is more "if it's a good game with a good success (like Fusion), it's tailored in a way that ensure we recover our budget and a little bit more." "if it's a tremendous success, we will have deserved to make much more money".

    Look at the DLC price for the Awesome Max Pack. We could clearly have put it higher and people would still buy it. The Awesome Max Edition (base game + season pass + DLC) is also a great value for money because we want that a maximum of players can enjoy the game. So, I really think we're not greedy. Trials needs to be a great "value for money" deal, it's in the DNA of the brand until now and we want Fusion to continue this. I believe we succeeded that part.

    Cheers,
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  8. #28
    funktastic-'s Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by RoguishRonin Go to original post
    On PS4:
    Set PlayStation Store spending limits

    There are a number of tools available to Master Account holders that help control spending by Sub Accounts. One such feature is the ability to set how much money can be spent in a calendar month.
    1. To set a monthly spending limit, make sure you are logged in to the Master Account.
    2. From the PS4's Home Screen, press up on the d-pad to get to the Function area.
    3. Go to (Settings) > [Parental Controls] > [Sub Account Management].
    4. Choose the Sub Account you'd like to restrict and press the X button. Then choose [Parental Controls]
    5. Under [Monthly Spending Limit] choose the maximum dollar amount you'd like the Sub Account to be able to spend in a month. This does not fund the Sub Account, it simply restricts the maximum amount of money they can spend in a calendar month even if there are additional funds available in the wallet.


    On Xbox One:
    1. Go to the Home screen.
    2. Press the Menu button on the controller.
    3. Select Settings.
    4. Click Sign in, security & passkey.
    5. Select Create my passkey.
    6. Enter a 6-digit passkey.
    7. Confirm your passkey.
    8. Once you have your passkey, select the Purchase requires passkey check box. Now, when you want to make a purchase with your saved Xbox Live profile, youll be prompted to enter your passkey. To turn this feature off, repeat this step and clear the check box.




    Question about Acorns - We haven't announced anything else.

    Question about videos on the community dash - I wouldn't think that it would just be riding replays and the like.
    cheers for the response shifty bud , i actually new about the parental control but had forgotten about it due to it not being an issue for my self. Parents will be wise to take note of the information you have given which is very helpfull.

    Regarding Acorns , i asked this because within your first post regarding the dlc and the items , you and eno implied more than just one way to earn acorns but i only am seeing one way to earn them. I am sure that challenges and other ways were put forward in the thread. I understand that you obviously cant be totally 100% honest about whats hapening and are trying to be careful with your words so thats cool. But as far as how we are to earn these Acorns i find this unclear unless it is solely from one feature in the game. As previous there was other ways to earn these that were implied. Maybe this could be cleared up , if not dont worry abotu it its not that important.
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  9. #29
    En0-'s Avatar Trials Developer
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    Originally Posted by funktastic- Go to original post
    you obviously cant be totally 100% honest about whats hapening and are trying to be careful with your words so thats cool. But as far as how we are to earn these Acorns i find this unclear unless it is solely from one feature in the game.
    Hey Funk,

    We're actually 100% honest It's just that we haven't decided how/what we will do yet, we just know we have the flexibility for it

    Cheers,
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  10. #30
    funktastic-'s Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by skycamefalling84 Go to original post
    I'm going to quickly speak my opinion here (not meant to insult or hurt anyone)

    I think the Microtransactions aren't going to ruin the game. I generally don't really like that sort of stuff, but there are a few things to be considered:

    1. You only pay for purely cosmetic changes! So I have to ask: What are you *****ing about?! Calm the **** down. Noone's forcing you to buy anything. You sound like a bunch of little crybabies...

    2. Let's be honest, we DID get quite a lot for free, didn't we?

    3. You paid 20 $/€/BP for that game. 20!!!! 40 with 6 DLCs included!!! Are you insane to complain about that?! Every other company would have charged you 60 for the "main" game and probably another 30 for the season pass! And yes, alright, multiplayer should have been included from the get go and there were some bugs here and there, but COME ON!!?!?!

    4. I haven't played a game for such a long time since COD4, so in terms of value for money? I think I'm doing alright...

    That set aside, I think a way to convert earnt ingame money to Acorns (on anything around a 100/1 to 1000/1 ratio) would be appropiate, but we'll see what happens there.

    And of course, now all those posts will be popping up saying "but in Evo..." "but in Trials HD...". GET OVER IT! Times are changing. This is a completely different game than before. In 1990 you could buy a Volkswagen Golf for... gee, I don't know... 10,000? Now it's 2-3 times as much, yes. But it's better than the old one. It doesn't break down as much, it doesn't rust away right under your ***, it goes faster.... "but back then it was much cheaper! booohooo"

    I'm not trying to crawl up Redlynx' bottom here, not trying to defend them, or anything, just saying stop complaining so much, stop only seeing the "bad" things Trials Fusion brought you and start looking at the good things. You are all crying on a very high, first-world-problem kinda level, don't you think?

    (And don't you dare coming on here with 20 days of ingame play time saying "there's nothing good about it, most terrible game in history, blablabla...". I suppose if it was so bad you wouldn't have played it for that amount of time, would you?)
    Many of the above i agree with , especially evo. I do think people should just let that game be and stop comparing the 2. different age different times and all that. However it is obvious that almost every post in this thread has some constructive point towards the debate never mind what opinion people have about this new feature in which the devs shifty and eno are doing a good job to give replys even tho they might be alittle shy of the truth. However i dont think claiming everyone is crying is a very respectful way to contribute to a thread like this. even though people may not like this feature there seems to still be respect within the post and as a whole the entire thread until i read your post. It was alittle rude and very disrespectful to people opinions on this matter. I my self wonder why some are worried when they have the skill to no doubt get enough acorns to buy new york lol. I dont see how a person who has only had 6 posts can actually come to a conclusion that people are crying ?.This thread is one of many that most of the people within this thread participate within and have many different opinions. This is only one and cant be taken as a sole conclusion to base an opinion on someone. I think maybe you need alittle more forum time before having such a dramatic voice.

    No malice intented bud , just how i sees it and how your post came across within a decent thread that is most likely being used for final decisions on whats going in the pot and whats not. have a good one
    cheers
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