Ever since I went hands on with The Division ive been thinking and pondering of ways that could potentially make the game better and more involved. Obviously, we havent seen everything yet that will be in the retail launch of the game. They even told us, "This is in" and "This is out" for our particular hands-on demo time.
I wanted to bring up a point though that we know rogue status will follow us in and out of the Dark Zone in which we basically become a "Player Killer", or rogue status arch enemy type in the player driven world to other players. Why not take it a step further?
As a player ranks up higher and higher on the, for this purpose 'red', side of the spectrum, red being hostile and orange being friendly, it would be neat to see factions like the Cleaners and Rikers act neutral to them, theyre both hostile after all, in that they become somewhat of a 'Boss' fight to other players while participating in the Dark Zone. Now instead of having an on rails 'Boss' fight like most rpgs, you have a unique experience that's is player driven and player controlled.
On the opposite end of this, players who participate in friendly extractions or help players in particular ways, either by trading gear, powerleveling, or helping finish missions level on the 'orange' side of the spectrum in which police officers or JTF forces who remain in the city come to the players aid when facing PVE or PVP (against rogue status players) situations.
This brings depth to the experience in that moral choices matter not strictly on a choice by choice basis, or an in-the-moment act, but as an entirety throughout the players entire experience with the game. If you want to be that hostile run-an-gunner betrayer you can be. If you want to be the helping-hand angel of the city you can be. Each have their own unique rewards and benefits.
Yep this is something like the paragon or renegade-system of Mass Effect. Each choice, each dialog, and some actions gave paragon (good) and renegade (evil) points and some dialog choices or solutions to a problem were only available if you had a specific level of paragon or renegade. (I think there is an old post of mine that brings this up) But this has only the purpose, when it has consequences in the game and when the player can change the progression of the game based on his reputation. If not it is just another statistic that has no real impact on the game - and so far it was not confirmed that we even have an impact on the story progression.
There would obviously have to be a limitation to it, otherwise everyone would go rogue to walk right up to chests and loot them without being engaged. Rehaps link it with visibility and detection. You can get within so many meters of chests without flagging, but if you get close you get a "Hey what are you doing?" kind of flag where they go hostile.
First of all, this definitely won't work out with Cleaners, because they are meant to destroy anything in their path.
Rikers would be another idea, but you could say they decide in each unique situation if they engage or not (when you're rouge etc), since they do anything what they want anyway. The idea of support on the orange spectrum sounds like a good idea. Adding rewards/benefits to friendly/rouge players makes me worry how this would look like.
miki :)
Well when involving factions in any game normally there's ways to gain and loose acceptance from said factions and there is upsides and downsides to both of them. I think if you allow faction grinding in the dark zone its fine but again there has to be an upside and downside to it to keep the balance. The fact is there could be a rogue agent faction path you could follow in the game and were not aware of it yet. I think it would be cool to start the game all being agents but have the ability through objectives and faction killing that could take you down one path or the other based on your faction and pvp grinding in the game. This could mean that when you enter the dark zone your not rogue but you are through choices made playing the game and carry favor in the dark zone with one faction but not the other and vise versa. The great thing is they could make this game if they already havent super deep in the role play sense and allow for different story paths based on choices and factions your exalted by and factions your hated by, there's simply no limit to it and the fun and continued story it could create.
I'd prefer the separation between player and npe to be always the same. If anything, players on the "renegade" side of rogue behaviour should be made better targets, be somehow more obvious or rewarding for other players to attack you without consequence to them.
This could be furthered with "rogue hunter" status perks, such as cheaper trading or the like. Inversely, high-rogue players should somehow be rewarded for infamy - after all, players shouldn't always be penalised for playing the game the way it was designed.
NPE behaviour would become a problem, if it were to respond to players' status. What if the group had two high rogue and one low rogue player - what would happen? This would also cause major griefing for other players, luring other players into significantly unbalanced firefights when NPEs don't react to them.
Persistent reputation would be good to have. But changing faction response in the game should require you to fulfill missions from the various factions. It should have nothing to do with PVP actions in the Dark Zone. Fallout from PVP in the Dark Zone will occur naturally though grudges among players and clans. What happens in the DZ should stay in the DZ.
Sorry if anyone's said it already; I've been away from The Division for a while.
But there are a couple of things that I want cleared up about this whole "Rogue Agent" status.
What does it take to achieve Rogue status?
- If we get engaged, and I accidentally clip one of my team, or a nearby player, will I be instantly granted Rogue status?
- If someone engages us, but I kill them first, am I now a Rogue agent?
- If someone is being unsporting / harassing / abusing the team, or just pulling agro / trolling my squad, how do I deal with that player without me being labelled as the bad guy?
How do you get rid of your Rogue status?
- If I'm forced into Rogue status, is there a way to get rid of it?
- Are you a constantly glowing beacon on the map? Or is it possible to hide and have it fade?
- Does the Rogue status follow you outside the Dark Zone? (If yes, what happens when you come back in?) And does it have any negative affects (Prices at "market" go up?)
What are the Pros & Cons to Rogue status?
Pros:
- You can see untrustworthy "player killers"
- You remove threats and gain an XP bonus (+ loot?) by killing Rogues?
- Gain more contaminated loot for yourself when Rogue
Cons:
- 'Ping' on the mini-map
- Get a price on your head
- You may get hunted for your gear?
Also, what's to stop 2 friends from alternating between "Rogue" and "Rogue killer" to bump up XP?
(ie: Player 1 goes Rogue on Player 2 - Player 2 kills Player 1, gaining XP - start again but switch places.)
To answer the original question of this thread:
I like the idea of a notoriety system of sorts. Maybe a gradiented "health bar" type of system? - bright green being good, deep red being bad.
With regards to the NPC factions (the cleaners, etc.) I don't think they should be able to be manipulated by players.
NPC's are part of their faction because of the ideals of their faction. If you start messing around with neutralities and allying with factions, it gets overly complicated. (image 4 people engaging the cleaners but 1 of them is friendly with them and the others aren't. What then?)
Just know that Cops are Neutral/friendly to the player until engaged, and everyone else is there for their own gain - a "F*** the Police!" type attitude!
Can't see it working out myself, the whole Rogue Agent thing is starting to strike me more and more as a "every man for themselves in the Dark Zone" kinda thing. You go in there for the best gear to survive in a post-pandemic environment with no external aid. You need everything you can find for yourself, and you wouldn't want to share with ANY outsiders that you don't directly know to be friends.
If I were a Cleaner or Riker, putting the metal-issues of the cleaners aside for a minute and assuming some sort of rational thought... If I saw a member of an elite covert disaster unit deciding to go rogue and kill his own friends for their stuff, I wouldn't walk up and say "Hi buddy, how's it going? Want to partake in my awesome contaminated wares?!"