Junior Member
Guys this game looks AMAZING which is why I’m making this post. I wouldn’t bother with a game I have no interest in. I want to see this game become as unbelievably awesome as it has the potential to be.
First major problem.
The sword seems to appear as the primary weapon of choice in the game. Its certainly featured most prominently. Guys, apart from the viking period, the sword was NEVER a primary battlefield weapon (and in the case with vikings swords were very rare, hard to craft, and valuable). The sword was a sidearm, a backup weapon.
https://youtu.be/VA9PfiNcI0s?t=473
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Afv2slSIs
So to fix this, keep the swords, don’t get rid of them, but PLEASE put them in their correct combative context. Every character in the game should be carrying a sword (either arming sword or longsword) as a backup. the primary weapons used on actual battlefields are polearms, bows, spears, pikes, and specialized armor fighting weapons like the warhammer and mace. This means to game needs a disarming and sundering mechanic, so if the character loses their weapon they would then whip out there sword and keep on fighting. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix this as it would make this awesome looking game SO much better.
Second major problem
The armor in the game looks amazing, if only the game let it actually function the way armor is supposed to. Seriously, like every attack that connects in this game shows weapons chopping through hardened steel armor like it was butter. It’s like they’re not even wearing it!
The game shows people's heads being cut off through mail. this NEVER happens. contrary to popular belief, mail is actually very effective armor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJS1MziI98
There’s a really easy and awesome way to fix this. Get rid of hit points or health, I mean realistically one solid hit from any medieval weapon will kill a person, and transfer it to the armor. So every hit that lands doesn’t injure the opponent but does increasing damage to their armor so when it eventually fails the next hit will be an instant kill, while critical hits represent an attack than lands in the gaps and openings in the armor.
This would work well enough though realistically there’s no hope for a sword to chop through hardened steel plate.
Also I hope you are using the correct names and terminology. A LONGSWORD IS NOT A ONE HANDED SWORD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb2Cvd_amEc
Member
Your suggestions towards realism are very good. But you're basically asking them to do a whole different game. I'm pretty sure the animations they got so far were quite expensive. Although the game is remarkably realistic, I don't think they mean to push towards full realism.
Are you familiar with Sui Generis? It's Kickstarter PC game that seems to consider some of your points.
Junior Member
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Dude, this game is not trying to be historically accurate otherwise it wouldn't even have vikings and samurais in the same game. It's a fantasy world, they said it themselves. But off course it's a fantasy world with no extreme fantasy like spitting fire or something. It's a reimagine of what the world could have been, they are not trying to be historically nor "armoury" accurate. They just want to show that the more armor one class has the more defense he has, thats just it. and about the swords, there wont be primary ranged combat, this game is a duel based game, by up-close ranged weapons
Junior Member
There’s no question this is a fantasy but it's CLEAR the devs are trying to be very accurate within each cultural setting, which is very important. Even though it’s fantasy it needs to come across as realistic and thereby immersive. Why do we hate that Legolas walked on air in the last hobbit movie even though the movie was a fantasy? because it destroyed the fragile realism and immersion the movie was trying to create. Internal consistency is even more important in fantasy because you’re dealing with ultimately an unrealistic foundation.
From what I’ve seen the armor designs in ‘For Honor’ look incredible and with the knight combat they actually have sword attacks with the crossguard, using the longsword like a hammer. This is actually a very historically accurate and AWESOME use and function of that sword, one that is largely unknown, BUT THEY’VE INCLUDED IT IN THE GAME! I have NEVER seen any other game incorporate such accurate sword combat so this really says something about how accurate the devs want this game to be.
If they’ve gone THIS FAR for accuracy, which has added a level of awesome to this game that I find hard to express, missing some of the more glaring facts about medieval combat (mentioned in the initial post) does the developers of this game and the game itself a tremendous disservice.
I don’t think they would need to change any animation, keep them all they’re INCREDIBLE, just add some more for the primary battlefield weapons. Come on, don’t we all want to see halberds in this game? BRING ON THE HALBERDS!
Member
Man, there will be halberds, just check this image.Originally Posted by sentrixmorane Go to original post
Junior Member
Yes, I would very much like to see halberds in the game.Originally Posted by sentrixmorane Go to original post
I'm just against making swords mainly a sidearm and ranged weapons being a primary weapon.
Senior Member
That's a false equivalency. There is absolutely no indication that you can walk on air, or surf on a shield, or do a spinning flip, or any of the other flashy nonsense that Legolas does in the Middle Earth movies. If your sense of realism is so fragile that it can be shattered by the fact that swords are primary weapons, then I think you need to reassess your priorities.Originally Posted by sentrixmorane Go to original post
It's as realistic as it needs to be to do the job that it wants to, and the job it wants to do is give you the thrill of dueling someone in a way that is strategic, engaging, and most importantly fun. Having not played it, I can not honestly tell you if they succeeded, but from the gameplay shown and the various testimonials of people who have gives me a boat-load of confidence.
They're trying to exist in a space between history and legend, and legend has always romanticised the sword, so to not have knights, vikings, and samurai brandishing what could be an Excalibur would be silly.
That's not to say, of course, that they shouldn't put in other weapons---I'm pretty sure, given that there are various classes, that there will be a variety, including halberds, maces, axes, and whatnot---but getting so bogged down in historical accuracy that you relegate swords to a back-up is daft.
If you would like something that's more 1-to-1 mediæval simulation, check out Kingdom Come: Deliverance, which I'm excited for as well. But that's a very different game.
This, however, I do like. It would be really cool to have pieces of armour physically chip, dent, and break off as you get hit. I imagine something like this isn't present because, again, they're going for fun over realism. You could always just view your life bar as armour durability?Originally Posted by sentrixmorane Go to original post
They could always have a trade-off, like, each striking/defend position has its own durability bar, so if you get hit on the left a set number of times, then your pauldron breaks and if you get hit there again, you're dead, but you can still take hits on the top and right. That might add another layer of strategy to combat, say, if your opponent wants to focus on one area, it will kill quickly, but will also make them more predictable. On the other hand, a system like that might slow down combat too much, because instead of one life bar, there are three.
Still an intriguing idea.
Member
I agree with this poster totally.Originally Posted by sentrixmorane Go to original post
Agains 'tanks' knights in full plate swords would not be used unless you were pushing it through eye slits ect as a coup de grate. The main 'English' weapon was a war hammer, the hammer was used to damage joints therefore restricting movement or causing concussion. Once immobile the reverse of the hammer was used, this was a spike designed to go through plate, mail, gambechon then flesh. Though normally Knights were ransomed not killed outright.
Vikings primary weapon, was fear! They used a nasty reputation before a shield wall was formed (this I would love to see in the game.) the primary weapon when one was used was an axe, these ranged between throwing axes and boarding axes, though most just used the same one that they used on wood.
Swords were fairly rare, high status weapons some were even late Roman!
I can't say as much about Samuri as I have not used their bows and armour.
I spent over 10 years making and using weaponry and armour for various combat society's in the UK.
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