No ranged combat please | Forums

[Solid_Altair]

I didn't get the upgradeable thing. But I could listen to Jason in one particular part (when he is talking about how some feats will be generic). From what you heard and interpreted, will only the generic feats be upgradeable?

For me it realy doesn't seem like they said that. And I hope the feats won't be upgradeable. Just unlock and that's it. Ability Levels are usually a terrible thing. They're not about choices, they're about giving veterans more raw power. So, they're unfair and unbalanced.

[MisterWillow]

Masterclass, at 29:00 they discuss the feats/abilities. Each hero will have will have some class specific feats and then general feats and some will be upgradable.
https://youtu.be/UlU_6bgA0po

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... okay. I watched the masterclass live, and I honestly don't remember that part. I guess it would just depend on whether a feat like this would be upgradeable or not. If it has a variable draw-length system like I described before, I don't think it would be necessary.

Interesting bit of information nonetheless. Jason saying "there's a big long list" makes me curious what sort of feats are going to exist.

EDIT: I listened again, and it sounds like he starts to say 'upgrade' (you only hear 'up') and stops himself and says 'unlock', so I don't know if it was a slip of the tongue and he was correcting himself, or he actually meant upgrade. Also, Solid_Altair posted while I was writing this, and I actually agree with their stance---that feats should just be unlocks without upgrades. So an effective use of a feat would depend more on a player's skill (when and how they use it) and not on the time they've put in to upgrade something (an upgrade of the hypothetical feat we're discussing, could involve a shorter draw time, an extra arrow, or something similar). In the long run, it could get very unbalanced.

I'm ok with the hand crossbow, knives just seam more practical since that's what they used back then, but a crossbow one shot and drop like you mentioned would be nice thematically. I agree with you on the vikings, a throwing hatchet/axe would be more appropriate.

Like I said, it would be cool if Hero/classes with shields had throwing knives, just to add a bit of realism, since it would be cumbersome to have a sword, shield, and crossbow/axe. Just seems like too much equipment.

Also remember, we're not trying to make this a secondary-ish weapon. Just a feat to help in a moment of desperation. This is a melee game afterall and where's the honor in killing a guy across the map with arrows just because you can. I like to think of it more as a defensive feat personally.

Yep, yep. A feat like this would be fairly situational (I think). Like, you're on one end of a bridge, and you see two opponents approaching from the other end, notice one is injured (either via health bar, or that they're limping), you activate feat, draw to what you're able before they reach you (say, you only have time to manage a half-draw), fire, and take out one of your potential opponents. Or, you notice a teammate outnumbered and want to damage/distract/draw away one opponent. Things like that. It wouldn't suddenly turn you into a sniper (and even if it did, you'd only have one shot, so its potential for abuse would be negligible).

[Havemercy87]

I'm with you guys on feats not upgrading, but as Willow pointed out, I was thinking he says "up" and has a "hiccup"(for lack of a better word) and continued on. Also their talk about progression, given they could just be talking about the customizing your look and loadout. Now after hearing so many ppl dislike that, they may change it up(if that was their idea for part of progression), which I would be happy with.

Your part on the Bow shot is exactly what I'm thinking. I'm huge into archery btw, I'm a bower, more like a hack bower really...


Anyway, your theory on the shield bearers and the knives is good and realistic. I'd be ok with that or shield bearers don't even have a projectile. Which would be feasible also, they do have shields after all, be a bit awkward switching a sword or flail to your shield hand and grab a knife or anything for that matter and throw it. I'm gonna stand on no projectiles for shield bearers.

[MisterWillow]

I'm with you guys on feats not upgrading, but as Willow pointed out, I was thinking he says "up" and has a "hiccup"(for lack of a better word) and continued on. Also their talk about progression, given they could just be talking about the customizing your look and loadout. Now after hearing so many ppl dislike that, they may change it up(if that was their idea for part of progression), which I would be happy with.

Progression, I think, should just be unlocking customisable weapons and armour. Re-hearing that there's a bunch of feats, those could easily be included as well. Uncharted's multiplayer had a 'perk' system, where you got to equip two passive enhancements to your character (faster climbing, extra grenade, etc.), which you unlocked as you increased in rank, and there were a bunch of those, so they could do something similar with feats. For example, you have access to a few 'stock' feats at the beginning, which you could equip and swap out how you want (these would all be the 'generic' feats, of course), and as you increase in rank, you unlock more 'generic' feats, so you can vary your gameplay.

Anyway, your theory on the shield bearers and the knives is good and realistic. I'd be ok with that or shield bearers don't even have a projectile. Which would be feasible also, they do have shields after all, be a bit awkward switching a sword or flail to your shield hand and grab a knife or anything for that matter and throw it. I'm gonna stand on no projectiles for shield bearers.

That's a very good point. I agree completely.

[Solid_Altair]

Thanks for listening in and coming up with the "up..." theory. It fits. I think he was gonna say "upgrade", but stopped because it was really upgrade.

Besides generating "raw power" balance problems, upgradeable abilities can generate "behavioral" problems, if they're upgraded through use. Killzone Shadowfall was pretty much ruined by this.The game had an excelent spawn system, but it relied of having a couple of players placing spawn beacons. That's fine. The problem was that after fully upgrading the beacon ability, most players didn't wanna use it anymore, as they wanted to spend their time upgrading the other abilities. They didn't want to gimp themselves. This crumbled the whole balance of the game.
________

Another topic. That lady speaking around 29 minutes gave me an indirect impression that the equipment options will be only cosmetic. She said: "(by choosing feats...) You can also customize the gameplay of the character, not only the awesome visual of that armor". This evidence is far from conclusive, but it's an optimistic clue.

[Havemercy87]

Thanks for listening in and coming up with the "up..." theory. It fits. I think he was gonna say "upgrade", but stopped because it was really upgrade.

Besides generating "raw power" balance problems, upgradeable abilities can generate "behavioral" problems, if they're upgraded through use. Killzone Shadowfall was pretty much ruined by this.The game had an excelent spawn system, but it relied of having a couple of players placing spawn beacons. That's fine. The problem was that after fully upgrading the beacon ability, most players didn't wanna use it anymore, as they wanted to spend their time upgrading the other abilities. They didn't want to gimp themselves. This crumbled the whole balance of the game.
________

Another topic. That lady speaking around 29 minutes gave me an indirect impression that the equipment options will be only cosmetic. She said: "(by choosing feats...) You can also customize the gameplay of the character, not only the awesome visual of that armor". This evidence is far from conclusive, but it's an optimistic clue.

My friend and I we're just talking about this and he agrees with you on Killzone, I've never played it, but he says it got crappy really quick for this reason and we're both hoping that your right

[Dead1y-Derri]

Thanks for listening in and coming up with the "up..." theory. It fits. I think he was gonna say "upgrade", but stopped because it was really upgrade.

Besides generating "raw power" balance problems, upgradeable abilities can generate "behavioral" problems, if they're upgraded through use. Killzone Shadowfall was pretty much ruined by this.The game had an excelent spawn system, but it relied of having a couple of players placing spawn beacons. That's fine. The problem was that after fully upgrading the beacon ability, most players didn't wanna use it anymore, as they wanted to spend their time upgrading the other abilities. They didn't want to gimp themselves. This crumbled the whole balance of the game.
________

Another topic. That lady speaking around 29 minutes gave me an indirect impression that the equipment options will be only cosmetic. She said: "(by choosing feats...) You can also customize the gameplay of the character, not only the awesome visual of that armor". This evidence is far from conclusive, but it's an optimistic clue.

I agree with everything you've said on this subject.

Killzone MP was quite good but like you said it relied on a system where people were placing down spawn beacons otherwise you could easily end up being spawn killed..well to be fair you could never actually truly be spawn killed because you spawned in a safe area but people would just sit outside said area and wait on you.

[Deadshot.]

So, in the case of the samurai later in the video:



first slot = got a kill/captured a point (which seems to be the standard, since the knight has that as well, meaning, to me, that each class would really only have three real feats, the first 'slot' just being a sort of buffer (for lack of a better word).

second slot (left on the D-Pad) = shuriken

third slot (right on the D-Pad) = no idea; symbol indicates three uses of some sort of a poison skill (maybe apply poison to your weapon?)

fourth slot (down on the D-Pad) = arrow storm

I think that - from this picture, the points mechanics simply go towards team points (and maybe something else for the individual, like bragging rights at the end of the session), but that the STARS are what make the feats accessible. No clue as to whether or not you lose them upon death (most likely, however) - but it seems that you only need to do four impressive things to get to the max leveled feat. The picture shows that Geoff has all four (apparent by the fact that all his feats aren't greyed out....except the first one...he must've used it recently... and that he has the four stars above his name).

Watching one of the vids where the knight does an execution (he has three stars) it says "Feat unlocked" - and he attains his fourth star. Likewise, when fighting, you can see how many stars your opponent has - reminding you that he has some tricks up his sleeve.


My thought is that the knight may not have a ranged weapon like the shuriken at all, but have the "quick-heal" feat instead. Sounds more suited to the knight to have a defensive feat over an offensive one. Mind you...I haven't watched this vid for a while, so I may be forgetting something important.

Edit: Had a chance to look at a blog from someone who actually got to play. Some good tidbits of info there...
http://blog.ubi.com/for-honor-dominion-mode/
The Knights' Warden has:
* morale boost (pretty sure I saw this elsewhere, and it gives you a bunch of minions to help out - might be a different class though)
** health regen
*** catapult
**** hail of arrows

Interesting to see that standing in a control point that you 'control' rewards you with health regeneration (without having to use the feat).

[AkenoKobayashi]

It would be more realistic to have archers. I can understand how it would be a game ruining thing. Try to attack an archer, but you get gunned down by rapid fire arrow that negate armor entirely. Perhaps reduced damage if arrows hit your armor, but standard damage if it hits an unarmored part. Aiming for the neck or for the eyes on a moving target would require skill, which would ultimately be a turn off for archers.

[Demoraliz3]

ranged should be a special and never deal crippling damage ,, plz dont add dedicated archers to the game ubi