Dev Update: Ninjas, Ninjas Everywhere | Forums

[Waistless]

This isn't because we think you guys won't do it and we can "blame" it on you (as has been insinuated before), I'm honestly surprised that nobody has bashed out a quick draft of what they think constitutes different levels (I did see the RL Ninja Difficulty Level thread!). I know that this community can do it. I KNOW you can. We didn't invent the Ninjas, we don't run enough of them to take on drafting up a difficulty guide. We would totally mess it up, and since Ninjas came from the community, they are not "ours" to mess with.

Anyone attempting write up such a thing would encounter the same issues as yourself: they would be speaking for themselves rather than the ninja community. Even those who have posted in the thread I created are a very small minority of the ninja riders out there, especially some of the more experienced players who got banned from these forums for some reason. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I already posted my general opinion in that thread, but its hard for me to be specific about what constitutes those difficulty steps because a.) There are far better ninja riders out there than myself who can beat tracks that are considered lvl 4 and above (while I struggle with 3s) and b.) I've been playing Trials for less than a year...

And honestly I don't think its that necessary, I think the community would be fine if it were left to the track creators to set the difficulty themselves, if that's the reason you're requesting such details on difficulty levels. So if you're going to cross-plat these ninja tracks and need to mark a difficulty for them somewhere, just ask the creators of those tracks yourselves and if the creators themselves are unsure, they can post in the Ninja Difficulty thread and the community can rate them at that point.

Its just because Ninja is a community-created difficulty as opposed to being Redlynx-created, its too subjective to give an objective answer on difficulty if that makes sense? More of a general guide on how hard it is than being specific.

[StormPsykoz]

I would crossplatform ninja tracks by checking leaderboards, if the top has 0 to20 faults, it should be rated a level 1 something like that.
Maybe good idea to start crossplatforming those, (if it is for beginner ninja riders anyway)

That wouldn't work well. Quick example : If many ppl grind a level 2 track, we will then have a top from 0 to 20 faults and the track would end level 1.

[StormPsykoz]

Okay, bringing up new ideas.

On the french Trials forums, we have a global tracklist for all 4 platforms, and there are (sort of) ambassadors moderating each platform. Perhaps we could integrate the same system here ?

A global tracklist on the RL forums
1 or 2 ambassadors for each platform
Each ambassador has to fill up the section he's moderating, and eventually fixing some mistakes in it.

Also, about what Shifty said :

This isn't because we think you guys won't do it and we can "blame" it on you (as has been insinuated before), I'm honestly surprised that nobody has bashed out a quick draft of what they think constitutes different levels (I did see the RL Ninja Difficulty Level thread!). I know that this community can do it. I KNOW you can. We didn't invent the Ninjas, we don't run enough of them to take on drafting up a difficulty guide. We would totally mess it up, and since Ninjas came from the community, they are not "ours" to mess with.

This can absolutely be done, but it needs to be done right. We're pretty much ready to go on our end, and we know that you guys can do this. It just comes down to how important it is to you. The feeds are there, the procedures are there, the nominations are there... we just need a stinking guideline.

I've made a small list of factors that can have their importance on the ninja rating, if that's what you mean : https://sites.google.com/site/fusion...vel-of-a-track
Or perhaps you mean ninja tutorials ? Because I also have some tutorial tracks about most of the techniques coming up on the track central.

[IImayneII]

I don't get the ambassador/moderating idea.


The idea should be to prevent track creators from labeling the wrong difficulty to their ninja track, not tagging the proper difficulty afterwards somewhere in a thread. There is litterally no point of having a select few label difficulty of tracks after uploaded. It won't make labeling the difficulty on a ninja track any clearer and most likely the creaters will still not know wich obstacles should be in higher difficulties and will still result in inconsistent difficulty on a track.

I said it before, there should be clear lines of what techniques are linked to what difficulty level. These should be the main guideline for making ninja obstacles

Not a system where a select few label tracks after they are made, but a system used for creating ninja obstacles with the same difficulty. It should be a tool for the creators, not for the riders.

[StormPsykoz]

I said it before, there should be clear lines of what techniques are linked to what difficulty level. These should be the main guideline for making ninja obstacles

Not a system where a select few label tracks after they are made, but a system used for creating ninja obstacles with the same difficulty. It should be a tool for the creators, not for the riders.

The thing is, ninja techniques can be used anywhere. For example, you can use stationary bunny hops on level 3/4/5/6 tracks, like you can use fender hooks on EVERY ninja track, like you can do vertical box climbs on ninja level 4/5/6 tracks. Ninja techniques aren't linked to a specific difficulty level.

[Smilies2019]

some things are great in theory, but in real it is harder.
Same with asking for Ninja Community Ambassador.

This ninja level discusion is already going for years.
Just crossplatform ninja's already, no point in waiting for this discussion to end.

Ninja's are ninja's and nothing more. nobody knows their exact level.
Today its a level 2 tomorrow its a level 1.....first time playing a new ninja track always gives more faults then doing it for the second time or more.

lets face another thing, this Ninja Community Ambassador question who want it to be is going on for about 2 weeks.
And stil not 1 person has offered himself (im to bad at giving levels to ninja else i would)
So does it mean, if no Ninja Community Ambassador wil be chosen, ninja cross platforming wil be just another Myth?

We dont need a Ninja Community Ambassador for beginner - easy - medium - hard or extreme tracks.
And there are 100000's of difrent obstacles to make to determine a ninja level.

So....if u want a Ninja Community Ambassador first then upload ninja's, i think we wil have to wait until eternity.

[RetiredRonin]

In my opinion, there are already Ninja Community Ambassador streaming live on twitch
And they helping to grow the community already.
They getting asked a lot, should i buy this game?

We aren't just looking for people who recommend Trials to others (though that is pretty awesome, especially when they do so while showing such insane amounts of skill). We're looking for people who want to help the Ninja community grow, and don't have an issue with wanting to take up some of the burden that is necessary to do so.

But (i could understand wrong) you're saying ninja should be for beginners only (it is to help beginner ninja riders)
I always wanted to be a ninja rider and the best way to learn is to make them or just doing them.
Make a ninja obstacle in the editor and ride it, or ask someone for an good starter ninja track.
I'm making ninja tracks only (PC) just because i love ninja's ( exept the level 4+)

That's not quite what I was saying. Guidelines will help beginners know what they are getting into when it comes to seeing Ninja tracks in Track Central, but it will also help other players who can complete a certain skill level but don't want to deal with something far beyond what they are capable of. Much how some people just want to throw down some times on Medium tracks and then there's an Extreme level track in the middle of the feed.

I would crossplatform ninja tracks by checking leaderboards, if the top has 0 to20 faults, it should be rated a level 1 something like that.
Maybe good idea to start crossplatforming those, (if it is for beginner ninja riders anyway)

As others have stated this won't work very well as it can be pretty dependent on how much grinding people have done on a track.

Anyone attempting write up such a thing would encounter the same issues as yourself: they would be speaking for themselves rather than the ninja community. Even those who have posted in the thread I created are a very small minority of the ninja riders out there, especially some of the more experienced players who got banned from these forums for some reason. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's why it is important for these players to have a dialog and work on it as a community and not by themselves. Subjectivity will always play a part in difficulty designations, but by working with more opinions and getting a general consensus, that subjectivity is diminished and the difficulty comes more in line with the overall skill level of the community as a whole.

I already posted my general opinion in that thread, but its hard for me to be specific about what constitutes those difficulty steps because a.) There are far better ninja riders out there than myself who can beat tracks that are considered lvl 4 and above (while I struggle with 3s) and b.) I've been playing Trials for less than a year...

It doesn't matter how long you've been playing. What matters are your thoughts on the skill level required to complete a track or obstacle. With enough feedback from other players, the people who step up to the challenge of creating the guidelines will be able to base them on the community and not on individuals.

And honestly I don't think its that necessary, I think the community would be fine if it were left to the track creators to set the difficulty themselves, if that's the reason you're requesting such details on difficulty levels. So if you're going to cross-plat these ninja tracks and need to mark a difficulty for them somewhere, just ask the creators of those tracks yourselves and if the creators themselves are unsure, they can post in the Ninja Difficulty thread and the community can rate them at that point.

A track creator setting the difficulty for a track that they have created is a far more subjective proposition without guidelines. It is based on their view of a track that they have created. They have the benefit of knowing exactly how they *should* ride the track.

[StormPsykoz]

Personally I wouldn't mind taking the ambassador seat, but I have to see if moderating & adding things on the french forums tracklist won't interfere. That is, if an ambassador is really needed. I'm saying that because the community managed to stay on the ninja boat despite the countless debates about the level of a track. (Even if now the boat is about to sink imo)

Crossplatform ninjas would be a great addition to the game, and I myself wanna see that coming.

Also I'm thinking about releasing video tutorials about ninja techniques. So far the only video tutorials I've seen are about bunny hopping.

[Jonny]

I said it before, there should be clear lines of what techniques are linked to what difficulty level. These should be the main guideline for making ninja obstacles

Not a system where a select few label tracks after they are made, but a system used for creating ninja obstacles with the same difficulty. It should be a tool for the creators, not for the riders.

I actually disagree with this. I have a fairly strong belief that it really doesnt matter if the builder knows what level they are building. as long as they feel they are building a track that is fairly CONSISTENT in difficulty then that is all that matters. How the track is rated after the release will determine who attempts the track and if they have a good time doing so. It is far more important that the track is correctly rated by the community as opposed to a single builder trying to build a track around some specific guidelines that i feel cant really be done (more on that point later)

as far as i am concerned, it is a near impossible task (and fairly unfair to expect this from us) to build some sort of system to rate specific obstacles in order to help builders to try to form a track of a specific level. As storm quite rightly pointed out above, many techniques span a broad range of levels and the only way to truly rate a track is by treating every track individually.

I am going to propose something that i feel would be the best way to build a solid track grading system to rate tracks.

Many moons ago i played a game called FFR (www.Flashflashrevolution.com). Some people may have heard of it but basically its a flash based music/rhythm game similar to something like DDR. a few years back they decided to switch their rating system from a 1-12 scale to a 1-100 scale. With this change came a very nice feature and a feature that i feel the ninja community could benefit greatly from if adopted correctly.

They build a forum dedicated to difficulty placement disputes. The way this would work for trials is we would select our scale (id suggest a 1-10 scale) and then select a base track for each difficulty. Each track would then be placed into a list by a few people to a fairly accurate scale. After that, the community would be able to start a thread in a dedicated forum section in regards to moving a specific track to a specific level if they feel it was wrongly rated. These threads would require an explanation for the suggested move as well as a fairly good comparison to one of the base tracks. A discussion would then form in the thread and eventually a decision will be made by the community as to whether or not the track should remain where it is or be moved to the suggested location (or sometimes a totally different location depending on the discussion). As new tracks are added to the list initially they will also be placed by a small group but can be disputed at any time.

Hopefully i described that well enough for you guys to get the idea. feel free to check out the FFR forums is you need an example of what i mean. http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...splay.php?f=76

Naturally each list would have to be managed by someone on the respective console, but as for xbox one, im more than happy to put myself forward to compile a preliminary list with a few other people... any volunteers?

[BigSh0tRob]

StormPsykoz would make a good ambassador imo
but like he said the game is slowly dying so it might be too late