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  1. #1
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    Looking Ahead

    Looking ahead to the next editor if we get one - my opinion on some things that could do with improving to make things better for us

    VISTA's / Sky Boxes

    This blew me away when I first got to see the Vista working in a user made map, really liked that - having played around with the editor some more it appears that they are not so friendly at height.



    I would guess that the map is less than 100 high in terrain height from (at a guess 300) and the vista looks terrible at the lower ends of the map but then I have the map very low in places on its height - I would hope that with another editor come a lot more of these vista / sky boxes because they are a breath of fresh air and can really enhance a maps looks - Thing is with only the one they will become old eventually - So if these could still look good from height it would be great (maybe have a folder with different ones such as summer / winter / autumn - some different ones for different types of theme, obviously some of these will have to be designed especially for the editor if they are different from the next games theme.

    SCROLLING THROUGH ITEMS (Consoles)


    Just a little niggle for me this one - I would much prefer to simply hold down on either the d-pad or analogue stick to scroll down the items continuously - Right now we have to press every time to scroll past every object. (Consoles Obviously)

    DESTRUCTIBLE ITEMS


    I wish we could get a fix for those 2 doors that should be destructible - shame they won't blow up.
    The offending pieces are Temple Destructible Door 01 / Wooden Destructible Door

    Far Cry 2 had a lot of destructible pieces, unfortunately they removed a lot of the item physics with a patch (on consoles - not sure about PC) the standard barrels could be pushed over and rolled (they had to take a hit first to bring them into play)
    Red and Yellow exploding barrels could be rolled also - I know the yellow one would float in water and if you blew it up there was a carcass left from the barrel which you could move / push.
    There were cardboard boxes that could be blown apart / slashed with the knife and as well as some window shutters (most of us used as doors) there were also 2 sizes of window pane which could be shot to destruction (some items also respawned which was great)
    People would love to see as many exploding / degrading / destructible pieces as possible so here's hoping with the next editor items.

    ITEM PHYSICS


    The Bell in FC4 with Physics, can be pushed on land, it floats and can either be pushed on water or you can jump from one bell to another and even move while floating on the bell (which is upside down in water) rock and move in the right directions and you will get from A to B while on the bell - this could become one of the best items in FC4 for escape maps.
    Even if the water is much deeper the bell will still float - What we could do with is a pallet that floats / maybe a tree and also a small raft in the next game.

    MOVING / EDITING PIECES (Consoles)


    I do about 95% using Edit by Coordinates when rotating items, it is a lot slower but so much more accurate.

    This shows the standard method v edit by coordinates.
    So with Far Cry 3 they gave us this new method where we hold in the right trigger after selecting our item/s - we get say a blue wheel which rotates one way, Press and hold the left trigger and you get a Red wheel which allows us to rotate in another direction then press again and you get a green circle which allows us to move our item in the last of the 3 positions.

    I have to admit that this for me was a nightmare to use coming from Far Cry 3 to Far Cry 4 - I guess it makes sense now but I rarely use it.

    So what would my opinion be as a fix to make things better - well if you watch the video you will see that I have the camera auto scroll set to 10 out of 60 (moves in incraments of 10)
    I also selected the Camera Speed at 1x - we get 1x - 2x - 4x - 8x now one is fine for standard moving things around and is very slow when moving from one side of the map to the other so I believe we need a better solution for close up work.

    You can see that I had issues trying to rotate those squares neatly using the standard method so maybe if someone could look at adding in a rotate by degrees into this standard method where it hovers in incraments of 45 degree, we simply hold in one of the triggers to select the rotation type and then hold in the opposite trigger or maybe even press on the D-Pad / click the stick in that direction to bypass it hovering & it would then jump to the next 45 degree angle - This would always give us a quick fix setting somewhere close to where we want and then to make things that little bit neater switch to Edit By Coordinates to line things up exact and neat.

    The actual Edit by Degrees for me is the best thing about the editor - this is my number one choice when moving items - the only thing is that it takes time (on PC can they enter their own coordinates ?)

    I think we should be able to speed up slightly the long scrolling slider - that would help.

    Take a look at this video below from Far Cry Instincts Predator (2006)
    It shows a green height indicator so that you know the exact the height will be when you raise it, right now we have to either guess the height and adjust if needed or we go to terrain and (on consoles) press a button to select that actual height - If no terrain is available then it is all guess work.
    Also look at the item rotating by degrees back then (36 seconds it starts) Now that is what you call easy editing on consoles - If you could give us that option incorporated into what we have and also keep the option too edit by coordinates - that will be heaven.

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  2. #2
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    EDITING TERRAIN - Far Cry 4 (possible issue or intentional)
    On PS4 (I can't say for other platforms if it is the same)

    We get various options when editing terrain.
    FLATTEN
    SET TO HEIGHT
    BUMP
    RAISE/LOWER
    SMOOTH
    NOISE



    All the above have the same option to pick SQUARE or CIRCLE when editing.

    Now these two choices below are missing one choice which appears strange as the previous games had 2 choices.
    EROSION (SQUARE ONLY)
    RAMP (CIRCLE ONLY)


    So why is this such an issue you could ask - Well take the image below and the fact that I wanted to use erosion near the path - Because of the layout I built the erosion tool at that angle will eat right into the middle of the track with no way around it.



    But look at the shape of the circle on Scroll in that same area below - that would allow me to use Erosion if we had that circular choice.
    Also note that Noise has both choices and in some ways is a similar tool but reversed (I think)



    ZIPLINES

    Unfortunately we never got them in the Far Cry 2 or Far Cry 3 editor but the Far Cry Evolution and Predator versions had them on old Xbox and XB360 all those years back.

    I understand that the Camera Lock Feature does help place the ziplines better (the video was before you guys did that walk around)


    You had those ziplines all those years back where you can even drop from one zip line and catch another sending you into another direction - and you could shoot certain weapons while zipping - Now these are legendaty compared to the zip lines in FC3 and FC4 - Although the newer ones look way better they are a real pain to set up - if you could look at bringing those old ones back life would be so much easier when editing.
    All you had to do was drag the zipline to the required length and then move to the required height and it was done - The only downside was sometimes hiding the pole in specific maps - Also the clever modders got ziplines going upwards which was a lot of fun.

    EDITOR DLC
    You guys need to tap into this market and start getting these Map Packs out there, take a look at the FC2 / FC3 Fences


    Far Cry 2 had way better fences than FC3 and FC4, some of them could be shot at causing them to degrade - Honestly if it can't happen with Far Cry 4 then there should be a pack ready for thde next game which could be a purchase as FC3 Editor Pack - you could even sell specific parts like fences / walls / vehicles (A lot will frown at me saying that but if the multiplayer was good and the editor worked with multiplayer maps then I believe people would purchase these packs on console)

    If you could keep the items physics as they are supposed to be and were in their respective games then some would even remake their old maps.

    DOWNLOADING MAPS


    This puzzles me - So I want to play a friends map or maybe one that I hear is really good, I get the author / creator's details and the name of the map and I download it from the Far Cry 4 Servers.

    Now it says that I can open this map in the map editor after downloading - so it is on my system.

    Then I select Play map and to my amazement I download the map again. WTF

    There must be a reason - the only one I can think of is that this keeps the map stats on how many times it has been played / downloaded / favourited etc.

    I think a better option would be to have it available to Play Offline which then plays from the version stored on your HD - or play online which saves the stats (or even better play every time from the HD and allow stats to be saved if the player is connected up - that would save a lot of waiting around while downloading maps)
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  3. #3
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    The Editor Budget & Corpses


    Why do these corpses cost so damn much on the FC4 Editor Budget?

    30 Corpses maxes out an entire grid square but these are just static pieces, on average each human corpse costs 62 - there are tigers and even a large Rhino that costs a lot less.

    In the video I maxed out 6 grid squares, so thats 180 corpses - I got 6 more into a grid square and that was my limit almost gone for the whole entire map allowance.

    Using up 99.70% from the 100% available.
    Very Strange why they are so costly.

    Expensive Corpses Pt-2


    Just to rant on a little more about the corpses - these are actually really good pieces to use in maps - I remember first seeing the dead bodies in FC2 and thinking why can't we have those in the editor - then we got them in FC3 but again with that game they were costly also.

    Now here I place 7 items into a grid - all of them are animated with 6 having fire / flame and the 7th having smoke, you would think these would be very costly compared to corpses.

    So these 7 items in total cost 1.06%
    Now add in 2x corpses and your budget is 2.20% (You do the maths)

    Your Friends Maps Not Working


    This is a feature they should still look at getting working, it would save time messing around doing searches - one simple selection and you get a friends whole map list in front of you.

    Your Published Maps



    This is something which they screwed up with big time in my opinion, we can search via our published maps but there is no way to DELETE our maps from the database.
    So this would be something to fix up with the next one. We all make a mistake at some point and once published that's it your stuck with the map on their server with no way to take it down - the result is that if you want to make an edit you have to upload the map again and because the maps don't have an actual time stamp (Or I have not seen any) if you were to fix up an issue and re-upload the map on the same day there is no way to know which one is the newer version unless the creator changes the name to version 2 (as an example)

    Playing Maps - Remember The Author's Name


    I believe that the layout could be changed to include the Map Creator / Authors name somewhere & also to include a link to Download Other Maps by this Author.

    There are several areas that this could be looked at.
    1. - Either in the image above it could display the Creators Name under the map name and also in that drop down menu where the selection is MORE INFO, that could be a good place to give the player the opportunity to download / see a list of other maps by the same person.



    2. - Maybe that above is an area to put the map makes name because currently it is hidden in the More Info selection.



    3. - Or is that the place above to have it's own box which we click on under the heading View More Maps By This Author.
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  4. #4
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    One thing we all found odd at the start was the lighting in the Far Cry 4 Editor - we assumed that most did not work until some of the guys told us that it only comes on during the darker hours of the day.

    FC4 Map Editor Lighting


    Thinking about that it is quite a cool feature, and although most avoided night time maps in previous games with this one they don't feel that bad now.

    The lighting is excellent but for those who would still prefer to select lighting during the day also I would recommend adding Modifier so that we could tick a choice such as daytime Lighting On / Off

    Now there are lots of small buildings that have different lighting / fires / candles etc which only show up when it is getting dark.

    There are also some solo items hidden in among other pieces which work at night - I think that these could be listed a lot better because they don't show up unless we play around with lighting and different selections.

    How about some kind of icon that when you view the item there is an indicator which lets us know it is annimated or has lighting at night.

    Also Far Cry 3 had some pulsing lights / intermittent - Those were very atmospheric to use - I would love to see those return.
    Just my thoughts on it all.

    Very Slow Vehicles


    When you look at this Quad on a very steep incline it isn't really going that fast - and although race maps can be fun with the editor I honestly think we need a little nitro in these vehicles.

    With more speed I would hope that the vehicles could do longer jumps over ramps and with a faster vehicle would come a lot more racing maps and a lot more fun.

    I really hope that a modifier can be added for vehicles so that we can increase the speed of them - we need the crazy maps back in full swing - Another 50% power / speed is what's needed IMO.

    Modifiers


    These Modifiers are excellent, I really do like this new addition we got in the editor - However there appears to be some issues (I have not played around with the Wingsuit / Off at large height) Jaavaa had problems where he jumped off a really high platform to dive into the water below which is how the map started - Unfortunately the wingsuit appeared to kick into auto mode and turn on over a certain height (Or that's how it seemed to be)

    Kemet nubia said this about the Gravity Mod "GRAVITY MOD is glitchy, when testing this feature i've found that it's only temporary. I set my characters jump height to 4 and the gravity to 30 so i can try a new technique, i found that when you land hard say from a parachute jump or from a height that causes you character to land hard the gravity stops working altogether which means i have to back out from testing , then start it again. I have disabled this feature as i am unsure as to whether this same glitch would happen in a published map"

    Three Modifiers I would love to see added to the next editor.
    1. (As above - The option to alter vehicle speeds)

    2.
    The option to alter Enemy A.I. Speeds and also the Players Speed

    3.
    The wingsuit is brilliant for user made maps but it would be a lot more fun if we could slam into the ground at speed using the wingsuit - The problem is we can do this without dying but to do this we have to turn on Invincibility - I would like a modifier so that I can absorm the impact from a wingsuit landing without having to slow down and use the parachute.

    Now those three options above would be superb for me if we could also get a modifier into Multiplayer User Made Maps - we have to believe that this will come back at some point with the next game.

    Environment Settings



    I love the Enable Vists and Enable Snow options (as already discussed with the vista we could do with a few more different settings next time)
    Also the height in the FC4 Editor is 500 - using these Ambient Light options and selecting High Mountain it will take away that ugly look of the vista from height I mentiened in an earlier post.


    I think if we could have an option for Rain that would be perfect - Even better if there are different styles of rain we can have.
    The Ambient Sound is superb - really love all the choices, I hope we get those in the next editor - I would include all of them and any new ones from FC5.

    Animals Spawning
    I noticed there was an option where we can have animals re-spawning once killed, this could be a lot of fun - I would also look at vehicles maybe having a respawn option especially if we get to place them into multiplayer maps because once blown up after a set length of time they can respawn - also have the option to leave them destroyed - Vehicle Respawn Y/N

    Enemy A.I. might be ok to Respawn in Extraction and Hunt modes also - Maybe it is included in those modes, I have not checked yet.
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  5. #5
    Ubi_Jax's Avatar Community Manager
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    Hey FALLEN CHAMP.

    Great list you've got here and it's fantastic that you've provided so much detail!

    I'd recommend anyone that has any ideas akin to what FALLEN CHAMP has provided, to do so. We're always interested in feedback and ideas of how we can improve the in game editor!

    Thanks again and keep up the good work!
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  6. #6
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    zeeEVIL1 came up with this idea which I am sure everyone will agree is great - I would like to have a way, to isolate a wave of enemies to a specific zone
    Currently, they all seem designed to rush the player, or his general area.
    I only became aware of this because I was told that in my Temple of Kali map, there were no enemies at the temple when they got there. Even though, I placed 18 enemies in the temple.
    What if the Devs created something like the Map boundaries tool, but for Ai, and had one for each wave. Except for wave 2 which should go anywhere.
    Let the boundaries overlap or be separate.
    This would allow those of us mappers the ability to get more elaborate with our design and also pace the flow of enemies better.

    Would this also work ?
    Another idea is to have something like the road tool where we join dots, maybe place an arrow indicating the route which the A.I. will take and then have something that if a noise / movement is detected in a specific zone (area) close to the A.I. on the map then the A.I. would leave that patrol route and would then go into a hunt mode.

    My overall thoughts on the editor are that it's great even though we have had some issues along the way, lots of problems have been ironed out but we still have areas for improvement.

    The biggest hurdle I have is with the actual Budget on Next Gen Consoles - I like building indoor areas and the budget limit fills up very quickly when using the big flat pieces as walls and ceilings, I would love to see an increase on these newer consoles because rarely does the Memory go beyond 50% and I have never yet seen a map in the red on performance - everything is in the green.
    It is the actual object allowance which could do with been upgraded by 50% on PS4 and XB1

    COOP is a lot of fun - I would hope this can be extended with the next game into 4 players with A.I. in the maps also, now that would be a blast (add a modifier so that players can have a mini deathmatch against themselves with a counter to say 10 kills / 25 / 50 and the match ends when the player gets the number of kills required in the map)
    Honestly if that can be done it would be bedlam in the mapping community - but overall I think everyones goal is to get back into Map Building with Multiplayer Maps (there should be a place now for what we have with FC4 and what we had with FC2 reference how the multiplayer worked with the game modes and the hosting options - That is what is needed to get back on track IMO.

    Is the Multiplayer a forbidden subject for the next Far Cry game because we have not been listened to since 2006 - Just some standard MP modes, vehicles, 16 players and hosting options added with this amazing editor and it's game on again.
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  7. #7
    Ubi_Jax's Avatar Community Manager
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    Hey FALLEN CHAMP, I have a small update from the devs about one of the points you've raised.

    Originally Posted by FALLEN CHAMP Go to original post
    3. The wingsuit is brilliant for user made maps but it would be a lot more fun if we could slam into the ground at speed using the wingsuit - The problem is we can do this without dying but to do this we have to turn on Invincibility - I would like a modifier so that I can absorm the impact from a wingsuit landing without having to slow down and use the parachute.
    Apparently if you turn on the modifier for No Falling Damage, this should resolve this issue (whilst still allowing you to suffer damage from bullets/explosions etc).

    Obviously this would mean you can't take falling damage, but could be a work-around in this instance.

    Thanks.
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  8. #8
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Ubi_Jax Go to original post
    Hey FALLEN CHAMP, I have a small update from the devs about one of the points you've raised.

    Apparently if you turn on the modifier for No Falling Damage, this should resolve this issue (whilst still allowing you to suffer damage from bullets/explosions etc).

    Obviously this would mean you can't take falling damage, but could be a work-around in this instance.

    Thanks.
    Now that is good news to know, thank you for explaining that - It would be so much fun in a multiplayer match - I died a lot as the Rakshasa when using the wingsuit, I think if that were turned off and I could have hurtled towards the enemy at speed and not died when hitting the floor it would have made MP a lot more fun for me.

    The modifiers are great in my opinion but because some things such as the animals not leaving cages when the map is published happened I think myself included is weary of experimenting with maps and then publishing them - The reason is that if something does not work after publishing that worked when testing we can not delete our maps and there are some proud mappers out there who don't want their name on things that are not qorking quite right.

    I already have one tiny piece of terrain I missed on my last map that you don't really notice unless you are looking in the editor or you fall off the quad and look around on foot but already I wish I could edit the published map and correct this minor thing.

    I would also like to point out that with Far Cry 2 and Far Cry 3 there were a lot of people that did joint map projects, this is how it worked.

    One player starts a map - they then invite the other people in the group into the unfinished map and they discuss who will work on what.
    Some mappers are better with terrain or custom builds where others are good with problem solving or layouts.

    I think with FC2 (it's some years ago now & I can't quite remember) sure you could host a private match on an unpublished map - invite only type thing, then once the others have looked around they download the map from the host and save it. (Option 2 is for the original creator to publish the map then the others download it, once they have it they send a message and he then deletes the map from the server.

    With each edit done they either get the map from the host or they download it from the Far Cry Server then the uploader takes the map down and it repeats until finished then the final map is published and stays on the server.

    So that is why it is a big deal that people can't really make maps together, Sabotur is good with publishing a map and passing it over for another to work on but then he has no way to get that old version taken off the database which is a shame.

    I would also like to say that it was brilliant been able to look at the Ubisoft Maps in the Map Editor, Daniel Berlin said that would happen with Far Cry 3 but unfortunately it didn't in the end - I am always calling for a way to lock a map if you don't want others to be able to re-publish it, maybe allow people to open the map and edit / play around with it in the editor but to re-publish it I think that the Original Author should have a choice that when they publish the map they tick a box to say "allow others to re-publish this map" And if they do not tick the box then others can (as above) open the map and use it in the editor and save a copy offline but not re-publish into the actual database without the map creator ticking that box.

    Thanks again Jax for that explanation with fall height, I might just make a few crazy maps now that are in my head
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  9. #9
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    Apparently if you turn on the modifier for No Falling Damage, this should resolve this issue (whilst still allowing you to suffer damage from bullets/explosions etc).

    Just thinking about that now I think 99.9% of people would pull the parachute before hitting the ground in the wingsuit so it would be hard to get people to play a specific way unless there was a modifier that disabled the parachute but still allowed the wingsuit to function - That way you are going to get a crazy playstyle every time if you force players to use the wingsuit in areas of the map.

    You could even use the Extraction Point as a bullseye for a wingsuit race and it should be guaranteed that one player will not be too far away so they will see the other player smash into the ground & if they don't get it correct it could be costly because I think flying into that extraction point would count as job done.

    Another thing I would have liked was for players to find the grappling hook and parachute as we do in the single player game, by placing those in hard to find areas on certain types of map - That way they could enable for the player once found (again modifiers could help with that)

    Last thing is those Signature weapons - Would love to see those in the editor and a custom made loadout, even on another Far Cry game I would love to see lots of stuff from the previous games (FC2 / FC3) make it over to the editor, the trees and plants in FC2 were really good (FC3 and FC4 have nice stuff but Far Cry 2 always felt like it had more)

    And there was also an option for fake bushes in FC2 which looked really fine from a distance.
    I have to say that with FC4 and Nature one of the biggest disappointments for me was the lack of flowers, In the single player game there were those blue flower type fields which we did not get.

    But the actual Special Flowers / plants which can be harvested for syringes, I would love to use lots of those in a map but they always flash and it looks stupid, maybe even a modifier to turn off and disable those flowers would help - Looking back at Instincts in 2005 it had a single red flower that has stood out more for me than any of the other Far cry game until FC4 - And what puts me off using those flowers is them flashing (we need a lot of color with plants so if the budget cost can be kept down it keeps us mappers happy)



    reference maps been copied - That above was the most played map on FC2 (PS3) made by Cola Boy (AKA Basia) There are 46 pages of maps with the name Pacific Coast and you just know that over half are edits of his map.
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  10. #10
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    I just got told about a cool map called Mountain Grappler on PS4 (check it out)
    So I do a search for the map and find that it has 2 map pictures identical and a different creator for each map - Something tells me that one of these has edited the others map here.


    That image is something I really do not like with Far Cry 4 and user made maps because from that there is no way of telling who the real creator was.



    You have to dig deeper and look at INFO which then gives you that image above showing the Original Creator and the Latest Creator.
    I would say that if you are going to allow people to edit other authors work then be kind enough to make sure the original author's name is time stamped onto the actual map before it plays - That might put people off from thinking they can showcase other's work as their own.

    I would also like to ask a question.
    While in Malmo with Far Cry 3 we were told that Ubi-Massive were using a technique whwre they could patch things in and out of the editor on the fly without having to force a mandatory patch.

    This worked because one day I logged in and they had removed a lot of the explosives and took away weapon placement - so if they can take things out I am sure they can put things back in, the question - Is this same technique active on Far cry 4 with the editor - can things (items) be added if needed ?
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