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RADAR__4077
01-21-2015, 06:41 PM
I've been thinking. What if we got to play as Altair or even another Masyaf era assassin again?

I have given up on a good narrative, but I have thought of a in-depth immersive assassin experience, that may be possible with current generation technology. Much of it was inspired by AC1.

This game could be about Altair as a young assassin, tracking and killing assigned targets.

It would be much like the first game. Receive your orders at Masyaf, then ride to a city, where you get further information on your target at the bureau.

Then it becomes a truly open world sand box.

Nothing is handed to you. You get vague clues about the target, then you must explore a vast city and mingle with the citizens.

Also there is a reputation system. The more reputation you have, the more equipment and training you receive from the assassins, but the guards become more aware of "the man in the white hood". And future targets become more cautious.

For example: you arrive at the bureau and receive your briefing. Your target is visiting the city from far away, but his exact location is unknown. You paid attention, and noted a quick comment about the target's exotic pottery collection.
You go to the market and question people about a visitor in the city, when suddenly you see him. A man dressed in fine clothes, accompanied by a few servants and a large body guard, browsing the wares of a pottery merchant.
Now you have to decide.
Do you make a public example of him, greatly increasing your reputation by killing him in the middle of the crowded market? Or do you tail him to where he is staying and wait until nightfall?

If your reputation builds too much in a city, every guard will recognize you and attack on sight. You can reduce this effect by intimidating public officials with direct violence, or even more so by leaving a dagger and threatening letter next to them while they sleep.
Targets will also notice and become more difficult to locate as your reputation rises, forcing you to change tactics.
The assassins will reward you with new weapons, and the training you receive will be based on your behavior during missions. As you advance they will also be more willing to overlook undesirable behavior, such as violent back alley interrogations.

I know this will probably never become a reality, but I think it would be possible with today's technology if they took alot of time to do it and didn't bother with multiplayer or any other online features.

AssassinHMS
01-21-2015, 06:51 PM
I have given up on a good narrative, but I have thought of a in-depth immersive assassin experience, that may be possible with current generation technology.

Trust me, technology is NOT what stands in the way of a game like that. The reason you will most likely never see a game like that is also the reason why AC games have such poor gameplay, fans.
No one wants to put effort in games anymore. They’d rather be treated like little babies while being told that their great.


If you think a good narrative is beyond hope, then good gameplay is certainly just a shallow dream. I don’t consider Unity’s gameplay to be anything special (although much better than previous AC games) but just look at all the complaints from so-called fans.

RADAR__4077
01-21-2015, 06:57 PM
I want a well written narrative more than anything from this series, if they made the effort to execute a game like this properly, I think a narrative would form naturally.

I should have said I don't expect another good story until annual releases stop.

AssassinHMS
01-21-2015, 07:04 PM
I want a well written narrative more than anything from this series, if they made the effort to execute a game like this properly, I think a narrative would form naturally.
Perhaps, but it's still not going to happen. You can either blame it on Ubisoft (for selling out) or on the market (for choosing bad gameplay that makes them feel good about themselves over good gameplay that puts their skills to the test).

RADAR__4077
01-21-2015, 07:11 PM
I have already acknowledged that it will probably never happen... read the title.

I'm just throwing an idea out there to see what people think.

AssassinHMS
01-21-2015, 07:15 PM
I have already acknowledged that it will probably never happen... read the title.

I'm just throwing an idea out there to see what people think.

I think it's a good idea. There, did it help?

RADAR__4077
01-21-2015, 07:32 PM
I don't want this to turn into another protest of Ubisoft's business practices. There's plenty of those already.
Let's keep this fun and constructive.

Who knows? Maybe in 5 years we'll find out this got turned into a secret project and see this scenario in a E3 stage demo.

wvstolzing
01-21-2015, 07:46 PM
ubisoft's current conception of the 'open world' is that of a 'container of a bunch of busywork that you can attend to in arbitrary order' -- and while they're especially notorious, this conception is hardly peculiar to ubisoft. Skyrim is sometimes described as an 'ankle-deep ocean' due to similar frustrations; there seems to be an industry-wide trend towards theme-park style MMO-ification of all manner of story-driven games.

I guess the core frustration comes down to this: Game environments keep getting prettier; but while you might think that higher graphical fidelity would entail more lifelike, dynamic, behavior on the part of the objects and characters in those environments, those aspects keep getting more and more inert. They don't *really* respond to the player, or *cooperate* with him/her, outside of extremely limited, scripted scenarios. The player ends up running between totally indifferent points on the map, and earns a bunch of 'numbers' in the process. He/she can then buy abilities with those numbers, which let him/her merely do the same old things, with a little more speed.

I know this sounds too generic to mean anything, but the way out of this is to let players interact *meaningfully* with the game environments -- have their choices have *consequences*; let them manipulate the properties of the objects in unscripted ways, for unscripted outcomes to which the AI is *capable* of giving unexpected responses.

The game engine already tracks a zillion variables as to what the player is doing on screen ... how many of those are actually reflected in humanly meaningful ways in gameplay? Really a tiny subset. I'm sure the programmers themselves must be the ones who are most frustrated with this; if they had a bigger hand in how the environment behaves, I'm sure they'd bring in exciting layers of 'logic' into all that behavior. But obviously they're instructed, at the corporate level, to keep theme-park style MMO-ing all mechanics. Which is really sad.

Hans684
01-21-2015, 07:51 PM
This guy in his early years would allow that.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Rashid_ad-Din_Sinan

VestigialLlama4
01-21-2015, 07:55 PM
Then it becomes a truly open world sand box.

Nothing is handed to you. You get vague clues about the target, then you must explore a vast city and mingle with the citizens.


So exactly like AC1 then?


Also there is a reputation system. The more reputation you have, the more equipment and training you receive from the assassins, but the guards become more aware of "the man in the white hood". And future targets become more cautious.

This is the same structure of AC1 and all the other games, as you whittle down Templars, they get more and more cautious, and it gets harder.


For example: you arrive at the bureau and receive your briefing. Your target is visiting the city from far away, but his exact location is unknown. You paid attention, and noted a quick comment about the target's exotic pottery collection.
You go to the market and question people about a visitor in the city, when suddenly you see him. A man dressed in fine clothes, accompanied by a few servants and a large body guard, browsing the wares of a pottery merchant.
Now you have to decide.
Do you make a public example of him, greatly increasing your reputation by killing him in the middle of the crowded market? Or do you tail him to where he is staying and wait until nightfall?

Same as AC1 and Hitman.


If your reputation builds too much in a city, every guard will recognize you and attack on sight. You can reduce this effect by intimidating public officials with direct violence, or even more so by leaving a dagger and threatening letter next to them while they sleep.

This is the Notoriety system in AC2-AC3 era in a nutshell.


Targets will also notice and become more difficult to locate as your reputation rises, forcing you to change tactics.
The assassins will reward you with new weapons, and the training you receive will be based on your behavior during missions. As you advance they will also be more willing to overlook undesirable behavior, such as violent back alley interrogations.

First of all, how does this make any sense in a story. "Now that you are a higher up, there are no checks-and-balances on your behaviour whatsover" I thought the Code applies to everyone.


I know this will probably never become a reality, but I think it would be possible with today's technology if they took alot of time to do it and didn't bother with multiplayer or any other online features.

If you want a heightened version of AC1 then play AC1 without the HUD.

RADAR__4077
01-21-2015, 08:14 PM
So exactly like AC1 then?



This is the same structure of AC1 and all the other games, as you whittle down Templars, they get more and more cautious, and it gets harder.



Same as AC1 and Hitman.



This is the Notoriety system in AC2-AC3 era in a nutshell.



First of all, how does this make any sense in a story. "Now that you are a higher up, there are no checks-and-balances on your behaviour whatsover" I thought the Code applies to everyone.



If you want a heightened version of AC1 then play AC1 without the HUD.

I said it was inspired by AC1. This is something I typed up in 5 minutes. They could go much more indepth with all of the suggestions I made.

Target behavior would not simply progress as you work through the story. You would get a different reaction and to different degrees based on player behavior from your target, resulting in hundreds or thousands of variables. Not the same scripted kill mission each play through.

The notoriety system would not be so predictable and 1 dimensional.

Altair beat people to a pulp for information, then killed them to avoid having the target alerted. Surely a novice would not be allowed to use these tactics.

I don't want a AC1 clone, I want a well made game that greatly improves and expands the model.

VestigialLlama4
01-22-2015, 06:39 AM
Target behavior would not simply progress as you work through the story. You would get a different reaction and to different degrees based on player behavior from your target, resulting in hundreds or thousands of variables. Not the same scripted kill mission each play through.

So seven different ways to break into a wall? The fact is there's no such things as "hundred or thousands of variables" as long as your target occupies a given space at a particular time, there can be variations as in Dishonored, but there won't be fundamental changes.


The notoriety system would not be so predictable and 1 dimensional.

But it would function, nonetheless, in an identical manner.


Altair beat people to a pulp for information, then killed them to avoid having the target alerted. Surely a novice would not be allowed to use these tactics.

We see Al Mualim kill someone after interrogating him in front of Altair and the basic message is this is how we operate. Assassins don't cultivate full time informers or spies, once they get some cog in the Templar wheel to rat out, they kill him to prevent leaks back to the opposing side. It's medieval but fair. They aren't the police.


I don't want a AC1 clone, I want a well made game that greatly improves and expands the model.

Well, your improvements don't read like anything that is missing from the game itself. I mean it would be a more improved and developed version of AC, perhaps less linear. But you know, linearity has its virtues too.