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View Full Version : Rainbow Six Siege - Community Corner #1: Gun Recoil



Ubi-MoshiMoshi
01-21-2015, 06:07 PM
In this first episode of Community Corner, we ask Gameplay Programmer Adam Crawley one of your questions on how gun recoil works in Rainbow 6 Siege.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2bmi0Bvcs

Ubi-Genevieve
01-21-2015, 11:41 PM
Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you have on recoil here. I'll do my best to keep an eye out for them and reach out to Adam (gameplay programmer) or Andrew (game designer) who both worked on this feature if needed!

nagajolokia666
01-29-2015, 03:18 PM
Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you have on recoil here. I'll do my best to keep an eye out for them and reach out to Adam (gameplay programmer) or Andrew (game designer) who both worked on this feature if needed!


this is some casual console gunplay you got here Ubisoft...shame...
why not make it something like in INSURGENCY,man this game has a almost perfect gunplay/gun handling/recoil/scopes and hipfire machanics and also the weapon sounds are BEAST...and this guys are a small indie developer,...your guns, Ubisoft sound and feel like crap ...sorry

will this stay like this?

some insurgency gameplayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6hh-DJ4iyc

Seishoujyo
02-09-2015, 01:38 PM
Come on man this is not casual, COD is casual, no recoil at all, I think this is a good balance between something hardcore and casual, they want to do something for us old R6 fans but at the same time they need to sell the game (it's a huge AAA), in my opnion they are on the right path with this R6, the new build is much better right now compared to E3.

BTW Genevieve you re so lovely keep doing those videos ^^

Can we ask some other questions for the Community Corner number 2 ? If there will be another one of course.

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
02-09-2015, 02:16 PM
BTW Genevieve you re so lovely keep doing those videos ^^

Can we ask some other questions for the Community Corner number 2 ? If there will be another one of course.

Aww, I'll pass the message on to her and yes, if you have any questions again I'll pass these on.

Seishoujyo
02-09-2015, 02:56 PM
No problem Moshi thank you, when can we expect to see the next Community Corner ? 1 per month ?

Cortexian
02-10-2015, 06:00 PM
this is some casual console gunplay you got here Ubisoft...shame...
why not make it something like in INSURGENCY,man this game has a almost perfect gunplay/gun handling/recoil/scopes and hipfire machanics and also the weapon sounds are BEAST...and this guys are a small indie developer,...your guns, Ubisoft sound and feel like crap ...sorry

will this stay like this?

some insurgency gameplayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6hh-DJ4iyc
Probably because they want this game to be fun. Realism isn't the be-all, end-all of what games should strive to be.

They use a very similar recoil mechanic to this in Ghost Recon Phantoms, you need to pull down on your mouse or analog stick to counter recoil. It adds another level of skill required to accurately fire weapons. Some new players don't understand this immediately and tent to fire, stop, readjust their aim, and fire again instead of just constantly pulling down to counter the recoil.

Like many game mechanics, this has a learning curve, and having it be different on each gun actually adds some variety and dynamics to the game that make it that much more excited to purchase/unlock a new gun and try it out.

nagajolokia666
02-11-2015, 11:31 AM
@Cortexian

ok,... but still for me the free aim like in RO2 and insurgency,where the bullets come out from the barrel of the gun and with NO crosshair feels and plays more natural and awesome:cool:

Cortexian
02-11-2015, 07:07 PM
When I played insurgency a few weeks ago, it seemed that the origin of the bullets was the players "eye" (aka the center of the screen). People were able to shoot and hit me with only their head showing from behind cover, their gun wasn't visible at all.

A quick Google search shows other people experiencing the same thing, so I'd be willing to bet bullet origin in insurgency at least, is from the center of the screen. If you can show me some documentation on Insurgency showing something else though, I'd love to see it!

I haven't personally seen a game do bullet origin from the gun correctly in a long long time. It poses all sorts of technical challenges and typically ends up frustrating most players since angle of convergence with a crosshair (if there is one) comes into play. They mention this in the video I believe.

There's an issue of balance as well. Originating from the center of the screen typically allows devs to make sure things like angle-glitching don't occur as often.

Ubi-Genevieve
02-16-2015, 08:46 PM
Come on man this is not casual, COD is casual, no recoil at all, I think this is a good balance between something hardcore and casual, they want to do something for us old R6 fans but at the same time they need to sell the game (it's a huge AAA), in my opnion they are on the right path with this R6, the new build is much better right now compared to E3.

BTW Genevieve you re so lovely keep doing those videos ^^

Can we ask some other questions for the Community Corner number 2 ? If there will be another one of course.

Glad you liked the video!
Yes, feel free to ask questions here.
Yes, there will be other Community Corner videos :)

Superior Dee
04-01-2015, 10:15 PM
I concur. Center of screen firing is lame. Should come from the barrel of the WEAPON (not gun). Also, random cone of fire from hip is just plain wrong. You are supposed to be playing as an elite operator. The kind of guy who can run his organization's training/obstacle course blindfolded (slight exaggeration). While firing from the hip this elite warrior would be so familiar with his weapon he would have a very good idea of where those bullets are going to go. Hip firing should be very accurate towards center of screen (though not as accurate as aiming down sights) Say a small circle in the middle of the screen instead of pinpoint precision and also have more and less controllable recoil. Kind of like FC2 FC3 and FC4, all excellent games. I am not even a professional shooter, I just go to the range semi regularly and even I can hit targets fairly well at close to medium range without aiming down my sights. It is muscle memory. I know how it feels when the sights of my weapon are lined up. I have a fairly good idea of what it is pointed at and what they are lined up on and therefore I have a good idea of whereabouts my bullet is going to strike. There is no random cone about it. Then multiply my familiarity with weapons times a thousand and you get the idea of how good this operator should be with his weapon. He should be able to shoot the nuts off a gnat at 15 yards without aiming down his sights. How about get some people who actually fire weapons on the development team? And get Mr. Clancy down there so he can sack stomp the the developers responsible for these weapon dynamics! I too have heard from this video this is not the rainbow six game I have been waiting for or are excited about unless they fix these issues!

Solutions to being able to hit what they are aiming/looking at with the bullet coming out of the barrel of the firearm. A dynamic cover system where if there is an obstacle in front of your weapon your operator automatically sticks his weapon over/around it and leans out to aim down the sights. This generally works great and makes the character and environment feel more real and dynamic. eg FC3, FC4

I already explained a solution to the random cone of fire from hipfiring. The weapon is pointing somewhere in a small circle in the center of the screen. (very small if crouched or stationary and a bit larger when moving) then when hipfiring the bullets go there and follow the recoil pattern of the weapon except with more recoil)

There is my not so humble opinion.:mad: I do hope my voice is heard and my opinion considered.

Other than that the game looks great, but for people like me who like their realistic shooters.... ya know, realistic that could be a game breaker. I guess I will have to try it and see.

Uizdo
04-01-2015, 11:25 PM
I find COS shooting kind of saddening in a game touting tactics first mentality, but it does feel better in some cases, so I can understand it, at least from a design standpoint. It does mean that things are going to be a lot more arcadey seeing as this is a breach and clear, CQC game from the looks of most of it for now. You could argue it balances things in some ways, but it also can unbalance them as a result of sight angles.

Say a defender is down a set of stairs, and a attacker is upstairs. This is the only way through, so they're contesting it. In a COS system, the attacker is at much less risk as he only shows his head, a puny target(Albeit a very vulnerable one). Conversely, due to the COS system, you will not run into situations where you're hiding behind a car, and you try to lay down some fire, only to find it bounces off the car instead of your target.

CS:GO, and any game on the source engine uses a center of screen system, which can work in those situations because of their design, but I fear it may not be the best choice here.

My question(s) for the next Community Corner would be this:

What kind of matchmaking will Siege use? Will it use a queue system or dedicated servers, or both? Will there be competitive queue systems if it uses a queue, and what kind of ranking system would this use? Would there be any changes or differences from the regular queue? Things like minimized HUDS or limited interface based feedback(i.e. hit markers, player counters, death reports)?

Cortexian
04-02-2015, 05:24 AM
I find COS shooting kind of saddening in a game touting tactics first mentality, but it does feel better in some cases, so I can understand it, at least from a design standpoint. It does mean that things are going to be a lot more arcadey seeing as this is a breach and clear, CQC game from the looks of most of it for now. You could argue it balances things in some ways, but it also can unbalance them as a result of sight angles.

Say a defender is down a set of stairs, and a attacker is upstairs. This is the only way through, so they're contesting it. In a COS system, the attacker is at much less risk as he only shows his head, a puny target(Albeit a very vulnerable one). Conversely, due to the COS system, you will not run into situations where you're hiding behind a car, and you try to lay down some fire, only to find it bounces off the car instead of your target.
That example doesn't make sense. Even with a muzzle-origin system your camera is located at your characters eyes. If you were on the stairs and shooting down while aiming down sights, the defenders would still only be able to see your head, and possibly the tip of your shoulders.

Not to mention that most inexperienced newbies won't take barrel-clearance into account and end up shooting through the edge of the stairs for reduced damage to the defender while still only showing the top of their head. Unlike other games, your bullets go through a lot of things in this game so the COS aiming isn't a huge deal IMO.

Uizdo
04-02-2015, 08:44 AM
That example doesn't make sense. Even with a muzzle-origin system your camera is located at your characters eyes. If you were on the stairs and shooting down while aiming down sights, the defenders would still only be able to see your head, and possibly the tip of your shoulders.

That is kind of what I meant, I didn't clarify it very well. It may not be a deal breaker in a game like this where most walls can just be shot through anyway though, as you said. People will be able to see for themselves once they get their hands on the alpha whether it's something that feels okay to them in this game, or if it turns them away.

Cortexian
04-02-2015, 04:38 PM
Yeah, when I played the game myself at Ubi Montreal I never experienced any issues with COS aiming. Mostly because if I saw a sliver of someone behind a wall or something I'd just light them up through the wall and get the kill anyway. I don't think this will be a huge issue.

Uizdo
04-02-2015, 05:18 PM
It'll come down to how it feels when people get their hands on it I suppose. Personally, if there's a option to, I will be turning my reticule off, or modding it to be gone, it probably wont even be noticable at that point anyway, and I'd probably enjoy the extra immersion the lack of one will cause.