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GH_Klingstroem
07-25-2004, 10:59 AM
Now this is not whining! I have noticed that the p40 is a really fast roller since patch 2.01. Now I read somewhere that the p40 was quite heavy to control at hight speeds, but in this game she rolls pretty close to a fw190 asn she keeps that rate even at high speeds. Now is this correct?! If it is then thats perfect but if its not then why havent I seen anyone saying anything about it?!? She seems very manouverable at the moment! and by the way thx dev. team for a great patch!
Cheers

GH_Klingstroem
07-25-2004, 10:59 AM
Now this is not whining! I have noticed that the p40 is a really fast roller since patch 2.01. Now I read somewhere that the p40 was quite heavy to control at hight speeds, but in this game she rolls pretty close to a fw190 asn she keeps that rate even at high speeds. Now is this correct?! If it is then thats perfect but if its not then why havent I seen anyone saying anything about it?!? She seems very manouverable at the moment! and by the way thx dev. team for a great patch!
Cheers

Capt.LoneRanger
07-25-2004, 11:48 AM
P40 was built as a pursuit fighter, gaining altitude, then diving into combat, preserving as much energy as possible.
The P40 is not really a heavy plane. If it was, there wouldn't be the one real problem of the P40: It's engine is so heavy, compared to the rest of the plane, that you easily end up nose in the dirt, if you don't handle the breaks with VERY, VERY much caution.
BTW, the P40 is a rather old design and was built before WW2. It's greatest success was in in the AVG against China. But then, to be honest, they fought against WW1 Biplanes and unarmed transporters... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif
It's still my favourite c.rap-plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh, one more thing to flight performance: The biggest problem in flight was the instability in dogfights. The P40 tended to tumble very quickly, due to it's short vuselage. This was lengthened in later versions, as well as stabilizers, that were made a bit bigger.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

warweapon2
07-25-2004, 12:00 PM
WW1 BIPLANES!?!? XD

Someone is highly mis-informed.. It fought mainly A5M's, Ki-10's, Ki-32's and Ki-27's.. Hardly WW1 Bi-planes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Ob
07-25-2004, 12:06 PM
I guess U remembered to read golodnikovs interview about the p40 ?
no? well here it is:
http://www.airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part2.htm

so...now u want to read all of them? Ok...begin here and switch page at the bottom:
http://www.airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part1.htm

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

GH_Klingstroem
07-25-2004, 12:07 PM
thx capt Loneranger but that doesnt anywhere answer my question about how fast it can roll or wether its correct or not!
cheers

GH_Klingstroem
07-25-2004, 12:18 PM
thx f19 ob!!
antar att du e svensk?!?!
anyway, really great link!!
cheers!

F19_Ob
07-25-2004, 12:46 PM
Svensk ¤r att ta i. Sl¤kten best¥r av svenskar, finnar, tyskar , ryssar, vitryssar, danskar och ¤ven n¥got afrika dragning, mitt n¤rmaste p¥br¥ ¤r fr¥n Finland, fast en del finnar menar att "karelare" inte ¤r finnar, s¥ ja' har egentligen ingen aning.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif Jag stavar lika d¥ligt p¥ tre spr¥k i allafall.

BennyMoore
07-25-2004, 12:52 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love the P-40. But I'm certain that it does roll way too fast. I've seen the P-40 fly in real life for about half an hour (and fly in perfect formation with an A-10, which is just about the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life other than seeing a P-38 take off). It also did maneuvers, and never did its roll rate approch the two point oh one roll rate. The old roll rate was much more realistic.

I've been ridiculed here for saying this. People say, "You see a P-40 fly for a few minutes in real life and suddenly you think that you're an authority on the subject!" Well, when an aircraft waggles its wings for you, you get a very, very good idea of what its roll rate is. The same goes for an eight point roll. And the P-40 always looked like it was struggling with a horribly slow roll rate, like the old Forgotten Battles P-40.

Korolov
07-25-2004, 01:07 PM
Then the same argument for the P-38's roll rate comes in: how do you know the pilot wasn't being gentle with the controls because it is, naturally, a old plane?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Fennec_P
07-25-2004, 01:37 PM
The P-40 roll rate was increased to conform to historical values. Somewhere there is a chart.

Before, the P-40 rolled slower than a P-39. That was the subject of many a whine post, and rightfully so.

Cragger
07-25-2004, 01:46 PM
You ever stop to consider that the pilot intentionally rolled the aircraft slowly. Because this is more aweing to a crowd than a quick roll over. I've seen pilots take the entire runway length to finish a roll just because its more memorable and gracefull therefore more enjoying to a crowd. These guys perform thier aircraft to the crowd's enjoyment, not to best another machine of war as they where once used.

http://redspar.com/redrogue/cragger_sig.jpg

faustnik
07-25-2004, 01:53 PM
P-40s had excellent roll rates. I'm sure SkyChimp will throw a chart at you soon. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com) is recruiting
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31)

Capt.LoneRanger
07-25-2004, 02:20 PM
warweapon2, reading my post correctly, you see the AVG (!) fought against these opponents, not the P40s in US-service. There IS a difference, since the AVG was in Chinese service.

To be exact, these were P40C. In one of the most famous battles, they downed
2 waves of Ki-21 Medium Bombers(in Japanese Service since '38)
Ki-27 (light fighter since '36 in service)
Ki-43 (light fighter with 2x 7.7mm MG)

That was famous, because Japan Airforce learned to protect their transport "effectively" and still lost. (Around Christmas 1941)

The information about the enemies is from an interview with Roy Grinnel, who was in the AVG.

But one more thing for you, Mr.Brain: The KI10 IS a Biplane, totally underpowered and undergunned and infact an overworked design of a WW1 fighter. It is was in service since 1935. So, thanks for the brilliant example, though my WW1 note was just to show the superiority of the P40Cs in this time and area. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

Capt.LoneRanger
07-25-2004, 02:20 PM
http://www.russian.ee/~star/pictures/japan/kawasaki_ki-10.gif

Mighty, Mighty Ki10

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

mortoma
07-25-2004, 02:41 PM
I know a couple aerobatic rated pilots and it's true that they don't always roll their planes to full potential. Besides that, this is a sim, nobody every claimed, not even Oleg, that it perfectly models every plane!!! They get it close enough for me. If you want a plane that perfectly
behaves like it should, go out and buy a real P-40 or whatever.

jenikovtaw
07-25-2004, 04:18 PM
In that interview, the pilot says: "Over the ocean or during routine patrols we normally placed the selector at a position midway between AUTO and MIN"

What ocean? They talk about dust, which means it was the western russia, thers no ocean there....damn translators.

http://www.theartofwarfare.net/ftp/graphics/sigs/EXT-jenikovtaw.jpg

BennyMoore
07-25-2004, 04:36 PM
And I'd be delighted to find that I am wrong. Remember, this is my second favorite World War Two plane.

As it is now, I believe that the roll rate is too fast because I've always seen the P-40 roll slowly in real life and in videos. Please do show me charts showing that Oleg did not just increase it to pacify whiners, so I can roll away without feeling stupid and unrealistic.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
If you want a plane that perfectly
behaves like it should, go out and buy a real P-40 or whatever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By Jove, why hadn't I thought of that myself, earlier? Why, I think I'll run on down the the P-40 shop in town and buy me a P-40! Well, on second thought, maybe I won't. After all, it's not like I would kill to have one or anything!

ElAurens
07-25-2004, 04:45 PM
The early model P40s rolled at 135 degrees per second at 360mph IAS. The later models, D and onwards, rolled at 95 at a lower speed. (Around 250 to 300 mph IAS.) these figures come from America's Hundred Thousand, and are from USAAF tests.

The P40 was the fastest rolling aircraft in the USAAF inventory, and it also had the shortest takeoff roll.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

GH_Klingstroem
07-25-2004, 05:51 PM
it seems then as the p40 is modeled correctly!! Im very happy to hear that, although it makes it a fearsome opponent!! great to know that 1c got it right! cheers all and thx!

SkyChimp
07-25-2004, 06:14 PM
Roll performance of P-40F

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/p40roll.jpg

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg

KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-25-2004, 07:28 PM
P40 is one of the best early war planes in the game and can even compete up to 1943 planesets
it roll is very good ,climb is ok and turns on a dime and you can BnZ and TnB with that thing all day and night ,and now with the new fifties its one pass one kill on those paper machee early 109s
i never knew it was that good a plane ,i even fear it more then spit V'41,yaks and LaGG's when im flying in a FW190A4 or 109F4

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sunsigHH.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

LEXX_Luthor
07-25-2004, 08:13 PM
Goludnikov on the nose guns...BuzzSaw will be Happy.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
N. G.:: Browning 12.7mm. Powerful, reliable, good machine guns. In time, relatively soon after we received these aircraft, we began to remove the wing-mounted weapons in order to lighten the aircraft, leaving only the two synchronized guns.

A. S.:: Were two machine guns enough?

N. G.:: Yes, more than enough. I already told you how powerful they were.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

horseback
07-25-2004, 10:45 PM
P-40 got a bum rap in the Western Desert-flown without a 'breaking in' period by RAF, RSAAF, RNZAF and RAAF squadrons with minimal experience, especially in the Commonwealth outfits. British tactics of the time were not well suited to its strengths, and the experten of the Desert geschwaders chewed them up. Soviets didn't like its size, and the the P-39 appealed more to their needs & prejudices.

American groups after Torch were much more successful, not least because they didn't sit around their tents all night wishing they had Spitfires instead (and anyone who wouldn't take a P-40F over a Vokes' filtered Mk Vb is nuts, IMO).

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

RAAF_Edin
07-25-2004, 11:27 PM
P-40 had an excellent roll rate... only bellow some 200mph it would start to get slugish as it lacked a bit of power for it's weight. To show it's strenghts.. it needed altitude and dive speed which not many aircraft could match...

P-40 is a legend!

--------------------------------------
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
Edin "Kuky" Kulelija
No76 Squadron RAAF

GH_Klingstroem
07-26-2004, 06:03 AM
to meet a p40 up there really scares me as well! I seldom can outfly it! I deffinately cant outturn her and with the new guns she is quite a deadly plane! And for some reason I think she is a very beautiful plane. I always have! But whats the best tactic against it then?! I usually fly online with Fw190s and score lots of planes with it. Im quite good at BnZ... anyone?!

Capt.LoneRanger
07-26-2004, 06:57 AM
BnZ is one good thing about a P40. Sure, it can get fast, but only in a dive or after quite a long time. A Fw190 is faster anytime.

If you're in a turnfighter, just hold on long enough. The P40 cannot preserve energy for long in a long turn and will drop faster than most other planes in IL2.

The P40 also tends to roll, if you pull her up to quick. Just don't attack a P40 from the front. The 6xCal50 produce a deadly cloud.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

horseback
07-26-2004, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jenikovtaw:
In that interview, the pilot says: "Over the ocean or during routine patrols we normally placed the selector at a position midway between AUTO and MIN"

What ocean? They talk about dust, which means it was the western russia, thers no ocean there....damn translators.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No translation error at all; Golodnikov served in the Murmansk (think Arctic ocean) area during at least part of his wartime career, and I believe he also operated in the Baltic regions. I also got the impression that he was a naval aviator (as the Soviets defined one at the time).

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

F19_Ob
07-26-2004, 01:10 PM
I really like the 109 and p40. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

To end up at close to same speed and altitude with a p40 in a 109 is very dangerous and .
The planes were very equal and mostly pilotskill and initial positioning before combat decided the outcom in such an engagement.
In FB the p40 haven't the standard 2gun armament as the russians had, so it would have been slightly lighter and maneuverable but a marksmans plane. But in the american standard it was never the less equal and both the 109 and p40 has it disadvantages and advantages.
The slowspeedhandling was legendary in the 109's and the danger to enter a spinn in a slow speed scissor was always present in the p40. On the other hand the six mg's was a flat trajectory weapon compared to the cannons of the 109 so less lead was required in the p40. These disadvantages and disadvantages makes the planes very equal and are so in the sim too. So finding the qualities of both ac is the trick.

The best advantage is altitude. The one with E is usually the winner in combat.

Just afew thoughts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

PBNA-Boosher
07-26-2004, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think she is a very beautiful plane. I always have! But whats the best tactic against it then?! I usually fly online with Fw190s and score lots of planes with it. Im quite good at BnZ... anyone?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would you really want to destroy such a beauty? One thing you can do is to try and get it while it is climbing, and get it while it's slow. The P-40 is a horrible climber, and absolutely hates low speeds. If you can catch it in a climb, it's finished. Otherwise, it can roll away from even a Fw-190 if it's speed is good, and it can definitely dive away from it too. It's high speed handling is excellent. When flying German, it too is the only plane I fear.

Just remember-
-catch it low, slow, and climbing, and it's an easy kill.
-If you find it any other way, you're dead meat.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

BennyMoore
07-26-2004, 09:39 PM
Many of you are forgetting that the two models in the game are like apples and polka - there's not a whole lot of similarity.

I fly the P-40 E, because it looks nicer. The Extend-O-P-40 is so wrong. But after getting used to the spins, I think that the E is a superior plane to the M in more than appearance.