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View Full Version : One step forward, two steps back? RE: missing functions from last gen



Parkour_Pilgrim
01-18-2015, 06:15 PM
so, why is it that you can't pick up dead people and hide their bodies OR whistle from behind corners like you could previously in assassin's creed games? unity seems to have done away with this feature, and makes stealth frustratingly hard, and begs the questions as to why a stealth mechanic even exists in the first place. if you can't draw out individuals one by one, you may as well go in all guns blazing. yes, there are specific points that you can hide in, but having to wait for them to walk by is amazingly boring, where as a year ago in ACIV, you could simple purse your lips together and whistle, and draw a guard towards you. If Unity is SOOOO next gen, why take out a simple yet pivotal stealth mechanic? Reasons? Christmas deadlines? (hardly), spilt poutine on the code you wrote down on a napkin? could there be a patch that this is fixed? or at least tell your friends up in Quebec to add back into Victory? surely that can't be that hard to code in.

Perk89
01-18-2015, 06:21 PM
I don't find having to wait for my enemy to walk by boring perse', but I do think it's immersion-breaking AI. Watching them walk back and forth to the same two spots or in a circle back and forth is silly. It is next-gen, let's have them act better than they did last gen-and yes, whistle should be a part of that. I agree that the stealth mechanics are broken, but whistle shouldn't be the mask for it. It should be a feature, not a cover up for dealing with telepathic guards and their X-Ray vision.

phoenix-force411
01-18-2015, 07:19 PM
Whistling caused all nearby guards within the radius to approach you which will make you bolt from cover and break your stealth. It was good, but then it had a lot of flaws to it. In Rogue, it was more well controlled since the game shows you the expanding radius of the whistle allowing you to know the distance in which it can be heard and not.

Picking up bodies caused the character to pick up bodies even when the player did not intend to do so. It has its pros and cons, but it's definitely unwanted when it is done unintentionally.


Too many things were mapped to one button in Assassin's Creed which is why Unity reduced it significantly. In the Ezio Trilogy the O, B, and Left Shift, were used for: Grasping, Grabbing, Throwing(after grabbing), Gentle Push, Picking up weapons, Picking up dead bodies or a person, Counter Grab, Tackle(Tripping for Hook Blade), Shoving, Hook Throw(Revelations), Hook& Run(Revelations), Long Jumps(from a lamp turn), Hanging(at the edge of buildings), Dropping(Drop from hanging position), and Air Tackle.

That's too much just for one button even if some of them required different context or situations you might find yourself doing something else unintentionally.

Assassin_M
01-18-2015, 07:20 PM
Cherry bombs.

Parkour_Pilgrim
01-18-2015, 07:33 PM
Cherry bombs.

yes CHERRY BOMBS, but what if you only want to attract one person? and what if you're painfully close to an NPC that's just out of the hitbox range for you to contextually "assassinate" them? also, why does a "master assassin" need to craft a complex combustable device when he can simply purse his lips? last time I checked, Arno doesn't have a cleft pallet, so why shouldn't he be able to purse his lips and whistle?

Aphex_Tim
01-18-2015, 08:19 PM
Cherry bombs.

To my experience, when I toss a cherry bomb, the guard is always startled but never investigates.

phoenix-force411
01-18-2015, 08:31 PM
To my experience, when I toss a cherry bomb, the guard is always startled but never investigates.
From my experience, the guards that guard a specific area mainly the spearmen do not leave their post.

BloodyAugust
01-18-2015, 08:38 PM
To my experience, when I toss a cherry bomb, the guard is always startled but never investigates.

Same. They usually look in the direction of the bomb but will never walk over to it.

bitebug2003
01-18-2015, 08:54 PM
Yup I want them back too, but make the enemy AI more realistic and unpredictable - all guards react the same way when you throw a Cherry bomb
It also helps if their awareness disappears quicker if you're just hiding out.
30 seconds or so is too long -- not just for the 'Vanish' status to appear but also for the mini map to go back to an anonymous state

If you're going to promote stealth it has to have some realism to it - hugging around corners is a must

Hans684
01-18-2015, 09:31 PM
Or give us a disguise option like Hitman.

wickywoowoo
01-18-2015, 10:11 PM
Or give us a disguise option like Hitman.

There is a disguise option. It's so disguse-y that I refuse to upgrade to it because it feels like a cheat.

Hans684
01-18-2015, 10:44 PM
There is a disguise option. It's so disguse-y that I refuse to upgrade to it because it feels like a cheat.

I know but a Hitman version would be better.

Assassin_M
01-18-2015, 11:05 PM
To my experience, when I toss a cherry bomb, the guard is always startled but never investigates.
Man, why is it so different for me, then?? I really want to post a video now or something.


yes CHERRY BOMBS, but what if you only want to attract one person? and what if you're painfully close to an NPC that's just out of the hitbox range for you to contextually "assassinate" them? also, why does a "master assassin" need to craft a complex combustable device when he can simply purse his lips? last time I checked, Arno doesn't have a cleft pallet, so why shouldn't he be able to purse his lips and whistle?
Because he's dumb.

Whistling also attracts more than guard if they're close to each other, so that's moot. You don't throw the bomb RIGHT where you're at, throw it a bit farther than you you are so that they'd reach you.

xPLAY3R1x
01-18-2015, 11:37 PM
I agree 100% with the OP.

The cornerstone of Stealth is being able to divide and conquer. That rarely works in this game, let alone the fact Arno sticks to everything, so even a simple move like hoping over a small wall and then going into crouch is needlessly complicated.

Also, at the higher levels (after the campaign), I can kill one guard right in front of another and he won't even react. That has to be a bug, but still. The fact you can get into major sword fights and even gun battles in one room and nobody from the next room rushes in is just immersion breaking and ridiculous.

UBISoft needs to look to their premiere stealth series Splinter Cell, to see how stealth is done right and just adjust it to the historical settings.

DracoLeviathan
01-19-2015, 04:38 AM
It's probably a tangent, but I'll say it anyway. I have always hated the enemy detection AI in Assassin's Creed. The way they spot you is ludicrously immersion-breaking. If they see you, they stare for up to 5 seconds before registering that you are a threat, and then they instantaneously alert every guard in the area of your presence without any means to communicate their awareness of your existence. After you vanish, they instantly resume patrol in their previously postings, oblivious to the fact that you were ever there to begin with.

There are all sorts of potential solutions to these situations. Such as; improving patrol patterns to be less linear, having them spot you instantly if you fail a visibility check, having light levels play a pivotal role in how visible the player is, and making guards stay alerted and more cautious if the player was previously spotted. Also, a more refined, fluid cover system. Such as the ability to transition from cover to cover, whether it be above, below, side to side, or ahead or behind the player.

"Why do we tear apart the things we love, Masta Wayne? So's that we can find the flaws and prevent them next time."

- Alfred Pennyworth to Bruce Wayne. In my head, just now.

D.I.D.
01-19-2015, 05:41 AM
yes CHERRY BOMBS, but what if you only want to attract one person? and what if you're painfully close to an NPC that's just out of the hitbox range for you to contextually "assassinate" them? also, why does a "master assassin" need to craft a complex combustable device when he can simply purse his lips? last time I checked, Arno doesn't have a cleft pallet, so why shouldn't he be able to purse his lips and whistle?

Throwing a pebble, then - something like that. The whistle was silly, and the reaction was silly too (plus it would never have worked in co-op, if multiple players happened to whistle from their hiding places at the same time).

GunnerGalactico
01-19-2015, 05:16 PM
Throwing a pebble, then - something like that. The whistle was silly, and the reaction was silly too (plus it would never have worked in co-op, if multiple players happened to whistle from their hiding places at the same time).

^^ This.

I don't mind picking up dead bodies to hide them in haystacks, bushes or wells... but I do not want the whistling back.

Megas_Doux
01-19-2015, 05:44 PM
Picking up bodies? Yes.
Whistling???? Not sure about it.

DemonLord4lf
01-21-2015, 03:51 AM
I agree with whistling and picking up dead bodies, however we can't just toss out combat, i'll admit that the previous combat system was a bit OP, but they were on the right track in fixing it. They added new soldiers that you couldn't counter kill, chain kill. You had to figure out how to beat them. This combat system seems to be harder, but its not harder it's just dumbed down. You get three options, attack, dodge or parry. How is that a better system? Before we had, block, dodge, disarm, counter, break defense and chain kill. If they really want to make this game just about stealth they need to make the stealth feature a lot better then it is now.

JustPlainQuirky
01-21-2015, 03:59 AM
picking up bodies was pretty useless.

but i liked to do it to give characters proper graves

DemonLord4lf
01-21-2015, 04:08 AM
picking up bodies was pretty useless.

but i liked to do it to give characters proper graves

How was it useless? You could hide the bodies, or in your case, give them a proper grave. You could also throw the body down from a rooftop to cause some commotion with the guards. Or you could just not do it. Just because some people didn't like/use it doesn't mean it should've been removed.