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AVSPappy
04-13-2004, 08:20 PM
Gday All,

Just a quick question regarding the upcoming excellent PF.
How many squads would be considering flying as Japanese as I expect there will be a plethora of allied squads looking for targets.
This will be interesting to keep an eye on.
AVS*Pappy
http://avs01.topcities.com/

AVSPappy
04-13-2004, 08:20 PM
Gday All,

Just a quick question regarding the upcoming excellent PF.
How many squads would be considering flying as Japanese as I expect there will be a plethora of allied squads looking for targets.
This will be interesting to keep an eye on.
AVS*Pappy
http://avs01.topcities.com/

SJG1_Therr
04-14-2004, 01:40 AM
I think S/JG1 will be Japanesee Squad toohttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

we kill american in Europe so we can do that in Asiahttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fly or die !!!!!

Commanding Officer
Sonderkomando Jagdgeschwader 1

MetalG.
04-14-2004, 08:06 AM
I'm wondering if there are/will be any Kokutais or Sentais for PF?
Many of them have ceased to exist after CFS2 was kind of dumped by the majority of players.

Bellicause
04-14-2004, 09:04 AM
I have never been part of a squadron but with the coming of PF, I'm very interested in flying IJN planes, so may be I will join a squadron on line, a japaneese one as I am a fan of pure dogfighting planes. Let them try to B&Z, we will circle aroud their planes as birds of prey before to shoot em down in flames.

Diablo310th
04-14-2004, 10:44 AM
SJG1_Ther...I wish there were more Japanese squads. My Jug needs some Rising Suns painted on it's side to go with the Swatikas I have already. LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/Diablos20Sig.jpg

Bellicause
04-14-2004, 11:12 AM
Flying the "jug" is in my opinion the worst thing that can happen to an U.S. pilot in his life. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

GK.
04-14-2004, 11:19 AM
At least in flight sims, it is. In real life, jugs were flown at very high altitudes and in very high numbers. They dictated the fight and used to teamwork to defeat superior japanese aircraft.

heywooood
04-14-2004, 11:24 AM
Second only to flying the Zippo lighters the Japanese used. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Mence
04-14-2004, 12:09 PM
Watch there will be many real Japanese squads coming in when PF gets here.

Diablo310th
04-14-2004, 12:17 PM
GK......teamwork is very definately teh answer to flying and staying alive in the Jug. I'm fortunate to have some good squadies willing to cover my butt during most of my flights. As far her being a zippo...that's one thing I hope gets fixed. it's very definately wrong. Bellicause and heywooood i look forward to seeing you in WarClouds sometime. I would like to have a chance to show show you what teh old girl can do. LOL j/k http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/Diablos20Sig.jpg

chris455
04-14-2004, 01:57 PM
GK, did you once hold a job as an Iraqi Information Minister? Some of your claims are.......well......optimistic?

"....Yet like the P-38 a fast and high flying P-47 posed a tactical problem the Japanese could not solve"- Eric Bergerud, Fire In The Sky.

Fact:
The Japanese did not field any fighter aircraft in any significant numbers that could be considered generally superior the the Jug. Fantasize all you want GK, the record does not bear you out.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
At least in flight sims, it is. In real life, jugs were flown at very high altitudes and in very high numbers. They dictated the fight and used to teamwork to defeat superior japanese aircraft.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

GK.
04-14-2004, 06:55 PM
off the top of my head,
ki-63 tony, ki-84 hayate, N1K1-J Shiden, all superior to the jug and all in significant numbers. If the above three were produced to numbers that were planned, the battle in the sky would have been dominated by the japanese, who possessed more experience and were generally better pilots as indicated by their kill counts.

Where did you get this "fact"?

GK.
04-14-2004, 07:12 PM
The Nakajima Ki-61 Hien, or Army Type 3 Fighter, codenamed "Tony" by the Allies, was at first believed to be a copy of a German or Italian design. In fact, only its engine was a licensed copy of the Daimler-Benz DB 601.

The Ki-61 was the first fighter of the Imperial Japanese Army that was the equal of - or better - than the Western designs it encountered.

Preceded by Ki-43, the Ki-61 was also a lightly-built and lightly-armed dogfighter. It was armed with two 20mm machine guns that could fire only 120 rounds per gun, and two 12.7mm machine guns each having 200 rounds. The machineguns had ammunition for 13 seconds only. Additionally, the aircraft could carry 1,100 lbs of bombs.

The The Ki-61 was followed by the Ki-84, which was considered to be the best Japanese Army fighter of the war. Initially the Ki-84 carried the same guns, although with more ammunition. Later versions of the Ki-84 had four Ho-5 cannon, or even two Ho-5 and two Ho-155 cannon. This marked a switch by the Army from lightly-built, lightly-armed dogfighters to sturdy, heavily armed all-round fighters.

chris455
04-14-2004, 07:58 PM
Off the top of my head;
Ki-61 had one of the worst maintainability records of any aircraft of any nation in WWII.
Behold the following from Bergerud:


Ki-61

"Despite having German blueprints and German aircraft to study,Japanese factories could not produce a reliable aircraft.A very high percentage of Tonys received from the plant failed inspection and had to be deliverd to the large JAAf depot at Kagamigahara in Japan to be repaired...................many others arrived suffering mechanical difficulties".

This airplane spent most of it's time on the ground for lack of spares and manufacturing defects than it did flying.

I have a top speed for the Tony of 368 mph-far less than the Jugs 426 mph. In maneverability the Tony is of course superior. No one will compare the Ki-61s high altitude performance with the P-47's. Overall, Tony was a fine aircraft. Generally superior to the P-47? Only to those refusing to accept reality.


Ki-84

I will not go into the myriad of difficulties and technical problems faced by the Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate in this post, since these facts have been reproduced dozens of times on these forums. Suffice to say that, again, while an excellent design, no one should infer a general superiority over the P-47. Equal in speed and firepower, far better in durability and with a high altitude performance which is an order of magnitude greater than the Ki-84's, no serious student of the airwar in the PTO would say the Hayate was generally superior to the P-47. This is not meant to imply that the Ki-84 wasn't a superb design. It was.

N1K1 Shiden
The fighter that started out as a lowly floatplane and which Sakai-san referred to as "a piece of crap made by a third rate firm" benefitted more from good press (Genda Minoru being one of it's strongest advocates) and a cadre of fine pilots (343rd Kokutai) than any outstanding performance characteristics. By 1945 it was probably the slowest frontline fighter serving in the PTO. Excellent maneuverability, great firepower, and robustness (for a IJNAF Fighter) makes it another potential great among Japanese aircraft.
Overall, somewhat competetive with the P-47 (which it may never have met in combat)
but certainly not superior. Too unreliable, too low a ceiling
(performance fell off dismally above 20,000 ft) and far, far too slow. Not to mention a notoriously weak landing gear.

GK, I cannot leave until I have assured you that I have no feelings of malice toward you, and I also would like to say that not only do I hope we get the N1K1 in PF but I hope it is all you hope it will be when you finally get to fly it.
S!


http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

[This message was edited by chris455 on Wed April 14 2004 at 07:20 PM.]

GK.
04-14-2004, 09:51 PM
prewhining already. If the jug and hayate are modeled anything like they are in fb, then it is you who will be dissapointed. The hayate is accurate as is with the exception of the damage model which is being worked out next patch. As is, it is clearly superior to the p47, there is no debate about that. As for your comments about the other planes i mentioned, i would have to say that your sources dont seem credible and you seem to be very selective about what you posted and have ignored what i have shown you. I also suspect that the planes in PF will be modeled under ideal factory conditions, with good fuel and modifications as this was done with many planes in fb. If this is the same case with PF, i think you are in for a big surprise. I even will venture to say that it will be a rude awakening. No offense taken. :P

http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

RedDeth
04-14-2004, 10:59 PM
ignore goodknight. hes spamming again. he always argued at ubi against all american planes. till they banned him. then they banned him at CWOS.

the ki84 was ineffective above 20,000 ft against the american planes. and remember the jug of the pacific was the P-47N .
which was far and away superior to the ki84. i recently read a pilot account in a p47n who by himself downing a scout plane and 4 ki84s down low in one sortie. he dove down and turned and burned with them all in a swarm on the deck . confirmed kills by the way.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

GK.
04-14-2004, 11:09 PM
who is goodknight and why do people keep calling me that.
btw the p47 barely saw combat in the pacific and the N was a very late model. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif
http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

GK.
04-14-2004, 11:17 PM
The first P-47Ds to arrive in the Pacific theatre entered service with the 348th Fighter Group of the Fifth Air Force in June of 1943. They were initially operated out of Australia and were used on long-range missions to strike at Japanese targets in New Guinea. The 348th was followed by the 35th Group and at the beginning of 1944 by the 58th Group as well as the 35th Squadron of the 8th Group and the 9th FS of the 49th Group.

Soon after Saipan and Guam were taken, the 318th Group and the 508th group of the Seventh Air Force saw action in June 1944, having been the first to take delivery of the P-47N long-range version. They were followed by the Twentieth Air Force on Okinawa readying for the final assault on Japan--the 413th, 414th, and 507th Fighter Groups equipped with P-47Ns. The long-range P-47N began to reach the Pacific in 1945, and operated as a long-range escort for B-29 Superfortress bombers attacking the Japanese mainland from Saipan.

Several other groups were equipped with the Thunderbolt but saw little or no action, either because they were training units or else were formed after the war had ended--the 6th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 23rd, 51st, 53rd, 83rd, 84th, 85th, 87th, 326th, 327th, 337th, 338th, 370th, 407th, 408th, 479th, and 507th Fighter Groups.

The war in Europe took precedence over the conflict in the Pacific, and it was not until April of 1944 that the first P-47s reached the China-Burma-India (CBI) theatre. They initially equipped the 33rd, 81st and 80th Fighter Groups as well as the 5th and 6th Fighter Command Squadrons of the Tenth and 14th Air Forces.

P-47D and N Thunderbolts reamined in service with the USAF for several years after the war, serving with SAC, TAC, and ADC squadrons. Eventually they reached Air National Guard squadrons, from which, after being redesignated F-47D and F-47N in 1948, they were finally phased out of service in 1955.

Sources:



American Combat Planes, Ray Wagner, Third Enlarged Edition, Doubleday, 1982.


The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books, 1987.


War Planes of the Second World War, Fighters, Volume Four, William Green, Doubleday 1964.


United States Military Aircraft since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian, 1989.


The Republic P-47D Thunderbolt, Aircraft in Profile, Edward Shacklady, Doubleday, 1969.


Famous Fighters of the Second World War, Volume I, William Green, 1967.


Thunderbolt: A Documentary History of the Republic P-47, Roger Freeman, Motorbooks, 1992.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

chris455
04-14-2004, 11:17 PM
Thank you for that account ReadDeath, I would enjoy reading it if you can remember where you found it.
Banned from CWOS? I don't think Charles Manson would be banned from CWOS! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
GK's anti-Americanism is obvious. Thanks for the tip, I'll just ignore him from now on-
no sense feeding the trolls.

(but-BTW- there was a brief period during early '44 when most 5th AAF Fighter Command squadrons were flying P-47's. But don't tell GK. He thinks the Jug "barely saw combat" in the Pacific.)

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

GK.
04-14-2004, 11:28 PM
because it did barely see combat and ive just posted indisputable evidence backing my claims along with a published list of sources.
Btw- redeths account is bogus, a poor attempt at trolling.
http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

chris455
04-14-2004, 11:40 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1241.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

04-15-2004, 02:14 AM
Crikey!
You lot find anything to argue about!

On a Historical Note, Nate Gordon the PBY Black Cat commander who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, for Valor !, when rescuing downed B-25 Bombers crews close in shore under Enemy fire at Keiving.

His fighter escort to Keiving where P-47s of the 348th fighter Group.
I reckon quite an exciting Coop could be made there when Gibbages PBY becomes flyable.

Cheers

Giganoni
04-15-2004, 02:36 AM
Well, Chris..he is at least listing sources, whether they are dubious or not you should find out. Your a good poster, just list your sources. Then he could look at them and decide for himself. He may have a bias, but bias can go both ways, look at RedDeth, he has a good red white and blue streak down his back haha, but that's just the way he is.

I do think on these forums Japanese planes are seen as very fragile..but even the Ki-43 II (13mm) had better pilot armor than say, the P51b (about 11.5mm) and I don't think some people actually realize that. Actually my armor specs for the P51 come from a fellow poster, the specs for the Japanese planes, www.wwiitech.net (http://www.wwiitech.net) the sources are cited at the bottom of the articles

SJG1_Therr
04-15-2004, 03:48 AM
Diablo310th.....

are you flying VEF/VOW?
if yes we can find each other now..... me in my Bf-109G-6/AS and you in you "jug" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif))))
it could be fine for both of ushttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S! if you do not fly FR.. hmm.. no comments http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fly or die !!!!!

Commanding Officer
Sonderkomando Jagdgeschwader 1

Diablo310th
04-15-2004, 08:39 AM
good morning to you SJG1_Therr......I don't currently fly either. I flew VOW back last year with my old squad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif about teh full difficulty comments. LOL Full real is ok...but hard on this old mans' eyes. I do admit tho that full real fits a Jug pilot best. It makes B&Z alot easier. I like minimum icon settings better. To each their own tho. Come to WarClouds sometime and we'll go at it. I look forward to adding your flag to teh side of my Jug sometime....LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/Diablos20Sig.jpg

faustnik
04-15-2004, 10:13 AM
"Will there be enough Japanese squads?" is a good question. I fly LW now but, can't stand the T&B methods that the Zero requires. I'm definately switching to VMF for Pacific Fighters. It should not take too much effort to swap out my 190 for am F4U. I wonder if many of the people who currently yank & bank the Russian planes will drift to the Japanese side?

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

GK.
04-15-2004, 10:17 AM
Only 2 american aces that I can think of flew p47s in the pacific theatre.
One is Neel Kearby who had 22 victories, barely over half of Bong's accumulation. He was a spectacular pilot and once had a 6 kill sortie. However, he was reckless, and because of this, was later killed in action by a tony.

The other p47 ace was William Dunham who had (16) victories. Both aces were in the 348FG, one of the few p47 squads that actually saw combat. Anyway i thought some people might find this interesting.

The vast majority of american aces flew the p38 and a significant amount of the victories were against the clearly inferior zero. The leading four aces all flew p38s. You have a few aces that flew the p51, and the p40 was more common but no plane is as distinguished and was feared in the pacific theatre as much as the p38 lightning. The p47 really made a name for itself in europe, not the pacific.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

chris455
04-15-2004, 10:17 AM
Hi Giganoni,
If you look at his post you'll see that GK has taken one account saying certain P-47 groups saw little combat, he then infers from this that the aircraft itself "barely saw combat".
The post itself flows logically and cohesively from start to finish- clearly it is one account from one source. But then our friend cuts and pastes seven sources to back up what is obviously a single source article. His ability to mix lies with the truth is second only to his virulent dislike of anything American.

FACT: In mid 1944, there was a period when most fighter squadrons in the US 5th Air force flew P-47s. Even before that the P-47 was an important type which saw much combat in the PTO, beginning in the Summer of 1943. The most famous FG flying Jugs at that time was the 348th, led by CMOH recipient Neel Kearby. They did very well against the Japanese aircraft they encountered, losing only a handful to enemy air action.

Also, Giganoni, look how our friend GK deftly shifts his argument from "There were few P-47's in combat" to "There were few P-47 aces"
See the change? Subtle, sudden, intended to sideslip and confuse. What piece of work.

BTW my source for the P-47 info above is Fire in the Sky by Bergerud

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

GK.
04-15-2004, 10:22 AM
You spelled his name wrong! im sure hes rolling over in his grave. Some p47 fan you are! While there were a few squadrons outfitted with the p47, as the articles stated, very few of those combat outfits actually encountered the enemy.

The p47 came too late to really make an impact in the pacific. It was ineffective because it was severely limited by the range it could fly. This issue was later resolved with the p47N, which has superior range.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

chris455
04-15-2004, 10:32 AM
Thanks for pointing out my spelling error- it has been corrected.

As I stated earlier GK, the P-47 began large-scale service in the PTO beginning in the Summer of 1943- 6 months before your beloved N1K1 Shiden was accepted into squadrons in the IJNAF. If "The p47 came too late to really make an impact in the pacific" as you state, then clearly the Shiden could have had no impact at all.
You cannot have it both ways, my friend.

BTW- Besides Kearby, you forgot: William "Dinghy" Dunham, Bob Rowland, Bill Banks, John Moore, Sam Blair, and George Davis,
all P-47 aces in the PTO.

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

[This message was edited by chris455 on Thu April 15 2004 at 09:50 AM.]

faustnik
04-15-2004, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
clearly the Shiden could have had no impact at all.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did any of the late war japanese a/c have much impact? The Ki-61, Ki-84 and the Shinden suffered so badly from mechanical problems that a large percentage of the few a/c available were not airworthy. The old Ki-43 and A6M were the mainstays until the end.

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CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

GK.
04-15-2004, 10:46 AM
The difference is, the shiden and shiden-kai saw significantly more combat than your flying hog. There are numerous japanese aces that flew the george as opposed to just 2 p47 aces. While the george came a little later in '43, it still saw combat because japan was on the defensive and did not need extreme ranges like the americans did. The lack of long range flight was where the p47 suffered and even when the p47N model came, the japanese lacked fighters that could compete at such an alititude so the superfortresses rarely met opposition. Im trying to be as objective as possible and present you with facts and evidence but it seems you just cant be reasoned with. Thanks for playing. You just got &lt;owned&gt;.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

chris455
04-15-2004, 11:00 AM
There were more than two P-47 aces: Kearby,William "Dinghy" Dunham, Bob Rowland, Bill Banks, John Moore, Sam Blair, and George Davis. All from the PTO. All from the 348th.

Your facts and logic simply don't bear fruit GK.

348th FS P-47s had droptanks to increase their range. A P-47 had greater range than say, a P-40 to begin with. I suppose you'll now tell us that the P-40 didn't play an important role due to it's lack of range?
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Give it a break, GK. Like I said, you are what I call an enthusiast. You never met a Japanese plane you didn't like, and by all of your other posts about the Hellcat, Bearcat, etc., you've probably never met an American plane you didn't despise. But that doesn't surprise us at all. Clearly, what RedDeath said about you is true.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
The difference is, the shiden and shiden-kai saw significantly more combat than your flying hog. There are numerous japanese aces that flew the george as opposed to just 2 p47 aces. While the george came a little later in '43, it still saw combat because japan was on the defensive and did not need extreme ranges like the americans did. The lack of long range flight was where the p47 suffered and even when the p47N model came, the japanese lacked fighters that could compete at such an alititude so the superfortresses rarely met opposition. Im trying to be as objective as possible and present you with facts and evidence but it seems you just cant be reasoned with. Thanks for playing. You just got &lt;owned&gt;.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

Mence
04-15-2004, 12:02 PM
Why are you lying about there being only two P-47 aces in the PTO? You know there were more than that? Don't you?

chris455
04-15-2004, 12:14 PM
Mence,
It's because he's addicted to bashing American aircraft, personnel and acheivements during WWII.

It is so obvious.

Go to the forum and look at some of the threads he's started.

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

GK.
04-15-2004, 04:24 PM
my facts and logic do bear fruit, and that fruit is ripe and plentiful. Your fruit is spoiled, pruned, and reeks of delusion and american propaganda. I enjoy flying american planes and I fly them time to time. I am hoping that PF does a better job with their modeling. However there is something more exciting and appealing about flying Japanese aircraft. I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it has to do with images of gracefulness, the samurai, honor, valor, high scoring aces, and fineese. Im not sure.

BTW I set you up and you fell for it. By listing the other aces in the 348 you have effectively shot yourself in the foot. It was one of the few squadrons that saw combat and it wasnt that much as all the aces have extremely low kill counts, some barely even qualifing as aces. You have just confirmed that the p47 saw limited combat.


You also display your ignorance when you bring up your point about the p40 and its limited range. It was a different period in the war then, and range was not needed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/351.gif
p40 did play an important role early in the war and in china but then again the p47 wasnt even around then. Flying tigers comes to mind.

Lets see, Japanese planes I dont like... I dont like the the float planes, and I dont like the dive bombers. I have no interest in flying those types of planes whatsoever. Japanese bombers were just too vulnerable.

American planes I will fly include, the f4u, p38, and p40. Especially looking forward to the corsair because it was so fast. I believe it was on par with the mustang or may have been a little faster im not sure. If the p47 has different flight characteristics than in fb i might give it a whirl. I love the sound of 8 50s. However, I feel that it will be incredibly easy to score kills flying USN if you are patient. It may also be boring. I am not patient and I prefer flying for the underdogs in any sim, it has nothing to do with being anti-american, this is just a game/hobby to me, i dont feel that being patriotic in a video game is the best way to display patriotism if thats the way one really feels. But nice try.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

Gunner_361st
04-15-2004, 04:50 PM
"The difference is, the shiden and shiden-kai saw significantly more combat than your flying hog. There are numerous japanese aces that flew the george as opposed to just 2 p47 aces.
Thanks for playing. You just got &lt;owned&gt;." -GK.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Come on boys, play nice. If you are still interested in any kind of a real conversation, remember Japanese pilots flew and fought until they died or were either too injured to fly. American pilots did their tour and went home.

Beating chests and saying "this aircraft is better and made more of a difference than this one, your wrong, oh, my country's pilots were better too" is the epitomy of childish behavior and laughable at best.

I'm sure some people already realize that though and frankly don't care. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Major Gunner of the 361st vFG

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1080.jpg

chris455
04-15-2004, 05:07 PM
You didn't set anyone up except yourself GK.

First you insisted that the P-47 "barely saw combat" in the PTO. I cited sources that proved you wrong.
Then you waffled and stated not once but several times there were "only two P-47 aces" in the PTO. Others saw this and posted their exception to this lie as well. I named seven- along with their outfit.
Now you're tripping all over yourself, talking all kinds of irrelevent banter about "Samurais " and "Honor"

Pathetic.

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

[This message was edited by chris455 on Thu April 15 2004 at 06:12 PM.]

GK.
04-15-2004, 05:28 PM
And it was the same outfit, you missed the point entirely and have failed to proove that the p47 saw much combat. my reasons for being fascinated by japanese planes seem very relevant since you questioned them.
Stick a fork in you, you are done.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

Mence
04-15-2004, 07:06 PM
The lies you told about P-47 aces makes no sense. What about that? You going to admit the lie like a man or continue on lying like a child?

SJG1_Therr
04-16-2004, 02:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diablo310th:
good morning to you SJG1_Therr......I don't currently fly either. I flew VOW back last year with my old squad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif about teh full difficulty comments. LOL Full real is ok...but hard on this old mans' eyes. I do admit tho that full real fits a Jug pilot best. It makes B&Z alot easier. I like minimum icon settings better. To each their own tho. Come to WarClouds sometime and we'll go at it. I look forward to adding your flag to teh side of my Jug sometime....LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/Diablos20Sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Diablo310thhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Good morninghttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I will fly on my Fw-190A-8... WarClouds on Ubi servers I think.....
OK, I wasn't there a long time ago, but I will try to find you with your "jug".
I like "jugs" if enemy pilot is good it is hard to kill it, but it is possible.
Best regards from Poland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fly or die !!!!!

Commanding Officer
Sonderkomando Jagdgeschwader 1

Giganoni
04-16-2004, 02:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
clearly the Shiden could have had no impact at all.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did any of the late war japanese a/c have much impact? The Ki-61, Ki-84 and the Shinden suffered so badly from mechanical problems that a large percentage of the few a/c available were not airworthy. The old Ki-43 and A6M were the mainstays until the end.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
http://www.7jg77.com
_http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would argue that the Ki-84 prolonged the war...over 3500 were made in the very short time it was operational (while Japan was under constant raids and attacks) Many of the later Ki-84 I's were built with even more powerful engines (Ha-45-21). The latest engine the Ha-45-23 actually fixed some of the engine trouble, but few were made and used in the Ki-84 I. I would also argue that the reliability of these engines was partly to blame that ground crews were not as well trained to deal with these planes (many skilled workers having been drafted).

sources:

www.wwiitech.net (http://www.wwiitech.net)
Complete book of World War II Combat Aircraft, 1988.

Diablo310th
04-16-2004, 05:28 AM
SJG1_Therr......~S~ to you. I shall look for u. Now this is how it should be ...some good natured banter between fellow pilots not all the flaming and ill feelings. S! to Poland from the USA.

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/Diablos20Sig.jpg

MetalG.
04-16-2004, 06:26 AM
Ok back on topic,
Are there any Japanese (historically) based squadrons already? Would be interesting to take a look at their sites.

Diablo310th
04-16-2004, 06:45 AM
MetalGear..I think there is. I think SK's are Japanese. Not sure tho. I would like to see their website also. Anyone have a link to it if it exists?

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/Diablos20Sig.jpg

MetalG.
04-16-2004, 03:56 PM
Hey Diablo,

Don't know SK's site although I think it is listed under the squadron directory on the IL-2 page. Also I believe they are mostly from Brazil but I don't know where I got that from.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif so don't hold me to it.
I was thinking more about historically based Japanese squadrons, like in CFS 2 the 204th, 202nd Kokutai, or the 68th Sentai.
More of these squadrons will definately be showing up the closer we get to the Pacific Fighters release, but it would be nice to see some of their sites if there are any.

SJG1_Therr
04-19-2004, 02:26 AM
I've found one ....

but frenchspeakinghttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif squad.....

check this, they flying on VEF/VOW against me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://membres.lycos.fr/shimpu1/index.html

Diablo310thhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S! Friend http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif it is only a game, good game, very impressive but game... I can not say any wrong word against you due to you are my "virtual enemy".. after a game we can talk each other or drink a beer that's allhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
If you will beter - it will be an honour to me to be killed by you, if I will be better so I hope you will write in chat S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif))


Fly or die !!!!!

Commanding Officer
Sonderkomando Jagdgeschwader 1

Diablo310th
04-19-2004, 06:29 AM
MetalGear....yeah i agree...I think more Japanese Squads will appear when PF comes out. I think it'll be interesting and good for the game.

SJG1_Therr.....good find on the Kamikaze Squad. I jsut wish i spoke French so I could read it. ~S~ to you friend. Hmmm that beer sounds really good. I'll buy the first round. LOL Therr...I'm sure you will shoot my butt down more times than I will yours.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

SJG1_Therr
04-21-2004, 02:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diablo310th:
SJG1_Therr.....good find on the Kamikaze Squad. I jsut wish i spoke French so I could read it. ~S~ to you friend. Hmmm that beer sounds really good. I'll buy the first round. LOL Therr...I'm sure you will shoot my butt down more times than I will yours.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmm... i do not know if I will be able to.. if will start to drink a beer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif beer in Europe is much more alcoholized than in UShttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif standard in Poland is 5,5 % alc http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Germans ans Czech beers are similarhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif after 5 beer i will not be able to point your Jug in my revi http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif lol

back to the subiect..... I think there will be much more US squads in PF than Japanesee... why? simply ... There will be modelled much more allied crafts than Japan.... and all n00bies will wait for Corsairhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif for me Zero is OK, so all my squad mate will rejoin to Japan squadhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif maybe we will have two names - FB - S/JG1, in PF - japanhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fly or die !!!!!

Commanding Officer
Sonderkomando Jagdgeschwader 1
www.s-jg1.republika.pl (http://www.s-jg1.republika.pl)

Diablo310th
04-21-2004, 08:01 AM
[QUOTE] by SJG1_Therr:
hmm... i do not know if I will be able to.. if will start to drink a beer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif beer in Europe is much more alcoholized than in UShttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif standard in Poland is 5,5 % alc http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Germans ans Czech beers are similarhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif after 5 beer i will not be able to point your Jug in my revi http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif lol

back to the subiect..... I think there will be much more US squads in PF than Japanesee... why? simply ... There will be modelled much more allied crafts than Japan.... and all n00bies will wait for Corsairhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif for me Zero is OK, so all my squad mate will rejoin to Japan squadhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif maybe we will have two names - FB - S/JG1, in PF - japanhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LOL Therr..after 5 American beers I can't fly very well. Send some of that good European beer over here to me. I agree with you about more American Squads. I do hope that several Japanese Squads will come of it tho. The 310th is a Pacific based Squad so PF is perfect for us. Our squad is looking forward to pF with great anticipation. ~S~ to you friend.