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View Full Version : Missing/broken combat and parkar



jandraelune
01-05-2015, 09:36 PM
There are missing and broken elements of the combat system.

!: Smoke is useless inside ' Active ' combat now...no longer able to pop smoke and just wrist blade kill the group. In order to do so you must >> START << the event before combat starts thus missing the point entirely. Why pop smoke in combat to help the ' Fight ' if your just going to swordplay only =.= once the fight has started. In the past AC's you could, pop smoke and start wrist blading.

2: Use range weapon as auto-aim in a fight...don't happen as you must manual aim to fire any ranged weapon =.= This is something that started with Etzio.

3: Combo/chain kills. Both gone as well. One kill at a time...even the first one Al-Tair you could kill more then one guy at a time easier.

4: Arno refuse's to go where and when you want him...he's fighting so many bugs his coding is just so confused it gives up and does what it wants >< Can't go any where outside of running on the ground quickly and efficiently as getting any where on ledges or roofs is far too much of a hassle and fight if not at times just impossible. There are moves that others could and would have done...that Arno just refuse's. But Arno can jump farther in one direction or teleport to some where completely not where you were aiming. Due to these bugs in this system...gone are the roof top high-ways and 3/4's of the uniqueness of AC. Outside of climbing for viewpoints and collectibles or to rooms with no other way to get to them....I just stay on the ground.

5: Picking up bodies/weapons. This has been there since Al-Tair. Now you are forced to leave bodies where they lay to get spotted at the wrong time. No option to throw bodies to the ground or some where to pull people to there.

6: You can not change combat styles, you have your one melee weapon. Wrist blade and fist them self not selectable outside of a mission forcing you to lock to just them. You can't even throw weapons...heavy weapons and daggers have been throwable since Al-Tair and Etzio. You could disarm enemy since Al-Tair.

7: You can not throw bombs of any kind to a useful spot with out getting spotted and just defusing the point to do so. Yes you get the very rare times you can...very rare.

MisterJedi
01-05-2015, 10:01 PM
I agree with this and this is exactly what I've been missing too. Different playstyles. It is now a hassle to take down someone non-lethally, I just basically stealth kill all the enemies as much as I can. I miss running around with no weapons, starting a fight with my fist (or hidden blades only) and then taking down someone either non-lethally (beat them down with fists), or killing them by disarming them and using their own weapon (or taking dead enemy's weapons), along with the multilpe takedown animations that no longer exists now.

The new one is just pretty much stab stab stab, parry and more stab. Even the 'non-lethal' weapons are supposedly lethal. Aside from that I've been having the same issues with Arno's movement and parkour.

Pretty much the only way this is addressed is likely in their next game, Victory.

Erfivur
01-06-2015, 05:33 PM
There are missing and broken elements of the combat system.

!: Smoke is useless inside ' Active ' combat now...no longer able to pop smoke and just wrist blade kill the group. In order to do so you must >> START << the event before combat starts thus missing the point entirely. Why pop smoke in combat to help the ' Fight ' if your just going to swordplay only =.= once the fight has started. In the past AC's you could, pop smoke and start wrist blading.

2: Use range weapon as auto-aim in a fight...don't happen as you must manual aim to fire any ranged weapon =.= This is something that started with Etzio.

3: Combo/chain kills. Both gone as well. One kill at a time...even the first one Al-Tair you could kill more then one guy at a time easier.

4: Arno refuse's to go where and when you want him...he's fighting so many bugs his coding is just so confused it gives up and does what it wants >< Can't go any where outside of running on the ground quickly and efficiently as getting any where on ledges or roofs is far too much of a hassle and fight if not at times just impossible. There are moves that others could and would have done...that Arno just refuse's. But Arno can jump farther in one direction or teleport to some where completely not where you were aiming. Due to these bugs in this system...gone are the roof top high-ways and 3/4's of the uniqueness of AC. Outside of climbing for viewpoints and collectibles or to rooms with no other way to get to them....I just stay on the ground.

5: Picking up bodies/weapons. This has been there since Al-Tair. Now you are forced to leave bodies where they lay to get spotted at the wrong time. No option to throw bodies to the ground or some where to pull people to there.

6: You can not change combat styles, you have your one melee weapon. Wrist blade and fist them self not selectable outside of a mission forcing you to lock to just them. You can't even throw weapons...heavy weapons and daggers have been throwable since Al-Tair and Etzio. You could disarm enemy since Al-Tair.

7: You can not throw bombs of any kind to a useful spot with out getting spotted and just defusing the point to do so. Yes you get the very rare times you can...very rare.

1. I'm fine with this because your enemy now uses smoke bombs too... and the old way was too easy.
2. Quick shots are in i'm sure, you can switch between phantom blade or pistols, if you're out of ammo on the selected one or need to reload though it'd be a problem.
3. I'm playing Rogue now and I do slightly miss the kill combo as it is entertaining to watch but it was admittedly an "easy-mode". Counter kill one guy and you chain kill the rest. I rather like the new difficulty in combat in Unity but I feel it suffers more from clunkiness and the controls not being that satisfying. I'm not in control of the cool stuff Arno is doing, he just automatically does killing blows if the health/attack justifies it. (Batman Arkham games get this right imo, there are tons of types of take downs, with lots of different animations but because I activate it intentionally with a specific key-combo it feels a lot more satisfying.)
4. Disagree here, the parkour in Unity is probably at the best it's ever been(in my opinion). There's still some stickiness to it but the moment I learnt to stop holding the "up" button all the time and just used it when i actually wanted to go up or when I wanted a "controlled-jump" it opened me up to awesome control when it came to doing jumps that Arno wouldn't do normally. Also being able to Parkour down is great. Finally we have a more stlyish way of getting off of tower-tops without finding a hay-bale.
Could it be better? yeah sure, but I personally haven't seen better anywhere myself.
5. Don't miss it for weapons, it was always really twitchy anyway, as long as I can choose to use an axe without dropping it all the time anyway, i'm good. (You can change weapons at the loadout menu whenever you want.) As for shifting bodies, it was nice and I slightly miss it but, tbh, ditching it keeps you moving forward. Feels like an intentional and reasonable design decision.
6. You can pick between lethal and non-lethal weapons and you can pick between one-handed/polearms/heavy weapons and rifles. That's actually pretty massive compared to older titles.
I can't stand guns usually but I challenge anyone to run around using a rifle as a primary weapon and not have a good time. When Arno slide-fires the rifle during a sprint-quick-shot when chasing down a crowd event criminal or you just beat some thugs down with the blunt end. Great times. The polearm combat is nice to have too, though it's not the most enjoyable.
7. Meh, bombs seem as good as they've ever been to me.

@MisterJedi - When selecting a weapon it tells you on the selection screen whether it is lethal or not. Generally the blunt ones are non-lethal and all but one rifle is non-lethal.

MisterJedi
01-06-2015, 10:41 PM
@Erfivur, kinda gives a different perspective on how people play because my experience totally is underwhelming and actually in line with most of what jandraleune said. Combat feels really sluggish and if the intention is to slow down the pace, it is done not in an elegant way because it is still too easy to go into the routine of parrying and do your 3-slash/stab attack routine, rinse and repeat. About the only variation to that is if the enemy is wielding a heavy weapon, in which you cannot parry and have to dodge around. Maybe the design is to give more difficulty and it achieves that somehow, but for me personally, this frustrates me more than it is fun.

As for loadout, yes there is loadout and you can equip yourself with non-lethal weapon. However, what jandraelune meant is the fighting style and quick change of weapons. In the older title, you can switch quickly using sword, hidden blade, pistol, or your FIST (which is conveniently missing). The variation in the loadout is fine, but there's only few way to fight (use your main weapon or pistol). You cant just incapacitate your enemies if you are equipped with lethal weapons. This brings in contrast the inability to disarm enemies and take their weapons, which means you can vary your fighting style on the fly without having to go to the loadout screen and equip yourself with different weapon types. Moreover, you can't kill your enemies in a fight using hidden blades (or counter/parry), just stealth kills.

Movement is worse for me, it seems. As I said, I cant seem to go where I want Arno to go. Most of the time he just got stuck there with people shooting at me. And then other times, there are places where the game told me I couldn't climb and hang on to, if I am persistent enough, Arno actually will jump and hang onto that ledge. Weird glitch or just issues? I dont know.

I guess my point is that even though I'm fine with them removing the chain kills (which admittedly can look awesome at times. If they decide to incorporate this in future titles, maybe put a cooldown period or energy meter so we cant abuse it.

jandraelune
01-08-2015, 12:51 PM
I was not referring to the chain kills. I was referring to the combo kills and more rapid pace of being able to deal with more then 3 at a time even with out chain kills. With Unity...more then 2 is forget it. Just not enough fluid control.

Quickshot...but that's all it is. Before you could just shoot and kill with no need of it always having to be a head shot. So no point other to waste your ammo.

The combat style here...it's just terrible. No options to change on the fly. Once engaged..bomb Swordplay ONLY. No changing to hidden blade, Fist or anything.

As for the parkor...it's broken. Place's you should be able to climb...Arno just wont right away with out you being persistent and not even changing the key usage. God forbid trying to get through a window...>< The mother of all problems, one try it just works with out issue, another try your there for five minutes fighting to get in from any side of it. Parkoring down...you always could ' Just let go ', you drop and grab the next hand hold. Wall Eject no longer accepts the direction you want to eject to, you only got eject.
^^^^More on the issue of parkor is the change in how you move after 'How long of being trained this way? ' and for them to just rebuild it from scratch ?