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View Full Version : PF will need a large ship set.



TimTam27
07-19-2004, 03:09 AM
It occured to me the other day that a sim depicting the Pacific conflict, if it is to be reasonably accurate historically in its depiction of events, will need an enormous ship set.

For instance,the IJN had several distinctive types of carrier that can't really substitute for one another. It might be a good idea for the developers to direct inexperienced 3rd Party 3D modellers who are keen to contribute to start out with ships rather than an aircraft. This would give us lots more ships and give the new 3D guys some experience before moving on to more complex things like aircraft.

Of course the developers have probably already thought of this but it might be hard to dissuade somebody from doing their favourite aircraft and convince them to do a destroyer. But it is sad to see so many aircraft started for FB that never get finished. I would have thought it would be a lot more satisfying to have a ship you built INCLUDED in the sim rather than a plane you built get LEFT OUT because it did not meet Maddox's requirements.

TimTam27
07-19-2004, 03:09 AM
It occured to me the other day that a sim depicting the Pacific conflict, if it is to be reasonably accurate historically in its depiction of events, will need an enormous ship set.

For instance,the IJN had several distinctive types of carrier that can't really substitute for one another. It might be a good idea for the developers to direct inexperienced 3rd Party 3D modellers who are keen to contribute to start out with ships rather than an aircraft. This would give us lots more ships and give the new 3D guys some experience before moving on to more complex things like aircraft.

Of course the developers have probably already thought of this but it might be hard to dissuade somebody from doing their favourite aircraft and convince them to do a destroyer. But it is sad to see so many aircraft started for FB that never get finished. I would have thought it would be a lot more satisfying to have a ship you built INCLUDED in the sim rather than a plane you built get LEFT OUT because it did not meet Maddox's requirements.

Latico
07-19-2004, 10:55 AM
Considering the size of the ships and the multiple gun batteries that have to be modeled, I would think that ships would be much more complex than aircraft.

There's a great bit of detail that has to be dealt with as we can see in the screenshots of the ships and those in FB.

I do agree though that there will be a need for a greater number of ship classes for PF. But I believe our computers will limit the number of ships that we can apply to missions, especially coop missions, due to FR hits.

Penguin_PFF
07-19-2004, 10:58 AM
A ship isn't all that less of a challenge than an aircraft. The difference is the total amount of work required. And there are some features on ships that aren't required for aircraft, so it's not totally accurate to say that one is easier or more entry-level than the other.

You are confusing the third-party hobbyist effort with the paid development effort. What gets made by whom is basically dictated by Luthier, not the modeler.

GT182
07-19-2004, 02:13 PM
I hope someone makes the PT boats for PF. They could use some airsupport. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net/forums (http://www.bombs-away.net/forums)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

kikka-01
07-19-2004, 02:23 PM
Re: the PT boats.
There were quite a few of them at Midway, there in the atoll, believe it or not!

The ultimate responsibility of the pilot is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions of earthbound ancestors who could only stare skyward... and wish.

Tater-SW-
07-19-2004, 03:00 PM
Actually, the Italian torpedo boat in AEP is an Elco, isn't it?

tater

PS--any suggestions for image hosting for stuff to throw in here?

Latico
07-20-2004, 10:28 PM
Can't forget McArthur's Navy.

LST's, LSD's, Landing bages of different types.

Fliger747
07-20-2004, 11:00 PM
The dream of the IJN, (besides dying gloriously), destroying the invasion fleets!

Latico
07-20-2004, 11:06 PM
Yep, and the Allies have to defend the amphibious landings against air attacks as well as provide CAS.

Tater-SW-
07-21-2004, 01:25 PM
The MOTHER LODE!

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id171.htm (ONI 208-J jap. merch. ships)

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id132.htm (ONI 208-J jap. merch. ships - REVISED ---oh, hell, I'm buying this as well.)


http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id110.htm (Small craft - i'm ordering this as we speak!)

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id88.htm

This is what we need. there are loads of sites on the US merchant marine, and US cargo shipping in the PTO was largely standardized, unlike the japanese shipping used.

WOOT! Devs want any of this, email me, i'd send you anything you like.

tater

edit: I think I might just order all of them.

Penguin_PFF
07-21-2004, 03:01 PM
To be as offensive as possible: Hory Clap!

That's what, about a hundred different ship types, at least?! Um... I don't know if my inbox can take scans of all that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif To say nothing of the effort required to scan it...

Right now I am collecting info to see what can be done in this area, but I wouldn't be able to say what's necessary and what isn't right now... More research is needed. I've got some work for this week already but after my current task is wrapped up I'll see what I can do in the ship department.

Tater-SW-
07-21-2004, 03:59 PM
Actually the "books" I ordered are CD-ROMs. No scanning, and all at 600 dpi. the ships in the small craft book?

Section 1 - Minor Combatant Vessels
Subchasers:
PC 1 Class
PC 4
PC 13 Class

Subchasers (Small):
SCS 1 Class
SCS 101 Class
SCS 251 Class

Motor Torpedo Boats:
PT 1 Class
PT 10 Class
PT 101 Class
PT 114
PT 201 Class

Hyabusa Boats:
No. 1 Class
No. 10 Class
No. 74 Class

River Gunboats:
Toba
Hira Class
Atami Class
Sumida Class
Maiko (ex-Portuguese Macau)
Tatara (ex-USS Wake)
Karatsu (ex-USS Luzon)
Suma (ex-HMS Moth)
Narumi (ex-Italian Ermanno Carlotto)
Okitsu (ex-Italian Lepanto)
Kosei
Kohei

Manchukuan River Gunboats:
Risei
Risui (ex-German Vaterland)
Teiken
Shinjin
Junten
Yomin
Kotsu
Daido
Rimin
Kaiho
Koiryin

ex-Chinese Customs Cruisers:
Ho Class
Hua Class
Hai Class
Haihui Class
Soo Class
Chuentiao Class

Amphibious Landing Ships:
HA Class
I Class
NI Class

Military Landing Craft:
Type "Super A"
Type "A" (Army)
Type "A" (Navy)
Type "B"
Type "C" Landing Craft
Type "C" Variation
Type "D"
Type "E"
Type "F"
Type "G"
Type "H"
Type "I"
Type "J"
Type "K"
Assault Pontoon Collapsible Boat
Rigid Pontoon Boat
Suicide Boat

Section 2 - Passenger Vessels
Oceangoing Passenger Steamers:
Tohiti Class
Bhanurangsi
Aoi Maru
Sansui Maru
Shirogane Maru
Kiku Maru
Ondo Maru Class
Mutsu Maru
Tenyo Maru
Okesa Maru
Sanyo Maru

River Steamers:
Lo Yang Maru
Loong Wo
Hoyo Maru
Loong Mow
Hsing Maru
Aioi Maru
Kei-Han Maru
Hang Cheong
Chia Ling Maru
Misc Lake Steamers
Misc River Ferries
Misc Stern-Wheel Steamers
Misc Side-Wheel Steamers
Misc Burmese Side-Wheelers
Misc Creek Steamers
Misc River Flats & Barges
Burmese River Flats & Barges

Passenger launches:
Misc Small Steamers, 100' or less in length

Passenger Ferries:
Moji Maru
Matsu Maru Class
Dentetsu Maru Class
Shun An
Shanghai Government Ferry No. 17
Electric Star
Man Kung Class

Train Ferries:
Changiang
Kanmon Maru Class
Ukoh Maru Class

Section 3 - Cargo Vessels
Tankers:
Kinesaki Class
Hadachi Maru
Ho Kwang
Takatori Maru
Tokyo Maru
Funagawa Maru
Tembusu

Freighters:
Jindai Maru
Toyo Maru No. 3
Sanyo Maru
Imizu Maru
Sekino Maru
Horonai Maru
Shinyei Maru No. 3
Nagaragawa Maru Class
Kirishima Maru No. 20
Toliwa Maru No. 1
Koga Maru
Shuko Maru
Toyama Maru
Uji Maru
Kosei Maru
Kogi Maru
Misaki Maru No. 2
Kitami Maru
Tarumi Maru
Torai Maru
Atjeh
Sekiyo Maru
Ujina Maru
Azusa Maru
Handow Maru
Yo****oma Maru No. 16
Hong Kwong
La Estrella Caltex
Misc Small Coastal Freighters
Type "F" Class
Type "E" Class
Type "E1" (Modified) Class
Type "E2" (Modified) Class
Daikokuzan Maru
Matsu Maru
Palawan
Sanko Maru
Makian Class
Syunzan Maru No. 2
Tenryu Maru Class
Yanawai
Ikuta Maru
Tosei Maru No. 1
Takachiho Maru
Motoyama Maru No. 1
Senyo Maru No. 5
Kiku Maru
Fuji Maru
Tsukushi Maru No. 3
Berouw
Shioya Maru
Jiro Maru
Banshu Maru No. 3
Banshu Maru No. 15
Fuji Maru Class
Momo Maru
Toun Maru Class
Brunei

Sailing Vessels:
Misc Schooners
Misc Ketches
Misc Brigantines

Wooden Sea Trucks:
Fumitsuki Maru
Misc Sea Trucks

Luggers:
100-ton, 90' type
90-ton, 85' type (square stern)
90-ton, 85' type (round stern)
65-ton, 75' type
60-ton, 70' type
50-ton, 60' type

Section 4 - Barges
Fuel Barges:
Type "V"
Type "W"
Type "X"
Type "Y"
Cargo Tube

Supply Submarines:
"YU" Class

Lighters:
Miscellaneous types

Cargo Barges:
Misellaneous Types

Barge Ferries:
Miscellaneous Types

Section 5 - Fishing Vessels
Deep-Sea Trawlers:
Kushiro Maru Class
Minato Maru
Hishun Maru
Tatsushiro Maru Class
Oi Maru
Taiyo Maru Class
Tokati Maru
Sendai Maru
Shunkotsu Maru
Shoan Maru
Hakuho Maru
Himeshima Maru
Bocho Maru
Hakata Maru Class
Eifun Maru

Coastal Trawlers:
Kamitaka Maru
Fuji Maru
Taian Maru
Fusa Maru
Koshizuma Maru
Kochi Maru
Shoho Maru
Shiratori Maru
Terukaze Maru
Soyo Maru

Fishing Boats:
Nanbo Maru
Matsuyama Maru
Syonei Maru
Toyo Maru No. 9
Royo Maru
Towan Taro Maru
Hyuga Maru
Showa Maru No. 2
Miyako Maru
Misc small fishing launches

Whale Killers:
Syonan Maru No. 11
Ganjitsu Maru
Fumi Maru
Kyo Class
Shonan Maru Class
Humi Maru Class
Tama Maru Class

Section 6 - Utility Vessels
Salvage Vessels:
Seiha Maru
Yusyo Maru
Nasu Maru
Miho Maru
Akitsu Maru
Hozu Maru
Shini Maru
Kamikase Maru No. 7
Kurihashi
Yodohashi
Saruhashi

Tugs:
Suwa Maru Class
Chobo Maru
St. Sampson
Kraus
Yin Ping
Shinryu Maru Class
Sakura Maru
Sumiyosi Maru
Nunobiki Maru No. 2
Isoko Maru

Tow Launches:
Miscellaneous Motor Launches

Dredges:
Chien She
Li Liang
Taishi Maru
Shohatsu Maru
Saiko Maru
Kyosho Maru
Gorota Maru
Shunkai Maru Class
Owada Maru

Floating Cranes:
2000-ton craneship
"Slewing-type"
"Non-Slewing-type"

Miscellaneous:
Rescue launches; Boom Tenders; Buoy Tenders; Lightships

Section 7 - Native Craft
Japan:
Misc Sailing Ships; Sampans; Barges; Houseboats; Dugouts

China:
Misc Junks; Sampans

Burma, Indo-China, Thailand:
Misc Cutters; Schooners; Junks; River Craft

Malaya, Sumatra:
Misc Ketches; Schooners; Junks; Lighters; Sampans

Netherlands East Indies:
Misc Schooners; Ketches; Sailing Barges; River Craft

Philippines:
Misc Dugouts; Lighters; Barges; Houseboats; Rafts

Section 8 - Statistical Index (CONFIDENTIAL)
Naval Conversions
XPG, XPC, XAM, XCM, XAN-XYN, XPP


tater

Tater-SW-
07-21-2004, 04:41 PM
Low res shots from the History on CD-ROM website ( http://www.history-on-cdrom.com ).

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/148c20f0.jpg

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/24cc2060.jpg

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/0e7c20e0.jpg

tater

Col.Thumper
07-21-2004, 06:03 PM
Another fact that many do not know is that ships were constantly into port to refit with newer/ more weapons, The USS North Carolina had 4 differant Schemes of AAA wepaons during the war herself. I think that it would be great if someone could MOD the warships eventually and add more in but I just hope they get the flight sim runnin decent first LOL

Tater-SW-
07-21-2004, 06:21 PM
I think representative types will do pretty well. I don't expect to see 5-10 kinds of DDs on each side. I think it would be nice if the texture maps were put someplace where people could redo those. That would result in a huge increase in visual ship models at zero cost to developers in time.

A US oiler, liberty and victory cargo types would be good for the US. Most anti-shipping work was done by the Allied forces though, so the japanese types need special attention. A couple barge types (1 landing craft, and a cargo barge at least), a lugger or two, and maybe 2-3 sizes of sea truck would be ideal. I'd add a junk and a sampan for local flavor along the South China coast. Actually, the small japanese craft could really double for any number of local asian traders, fishing boats, etc.

I'd love to see a few staionary versions where they jsut throw some palm fronds on top for camoflage.

tater