View Full Version : help -i'm thinking of giving up on this sim

02-27-2004, 03:50 AM
I really don't want to give up on this sim - but the really annoying thing is my shooting - no matter how hard I try, my bullets rarely hit the enemy plane - i have been practicing for a long time and even at .3 and .2 away, I still can't hit!!

Can anyone help me? Do you have to set your j/stick settings sensitivity in the sim or something? This is really piXXing me off!

Thanks for your help.


02-27-2004, 03:50 AM
I really don't want to give up on this sim - but the really annoying thing is my shooting - no matter how hard I try, my bullets rarely hit the enemy plane - i have been practicing for a long time and even at .3 and .2 away, I still can't hit!!

Can anyone help me? Do you have to set your j/stick settings sensitivity in the sim or something? This is really piXXing me off!

Thanks for your help.


02-27-2004, 03:54 AM
Read the FAQ at mudmovers'

02-27-2004, 03:55 AM
Sorry but there is no instant succes with a joystick. Practise is all you have. but I do suggest you join a squadron. ever since I joined 1.JaVA my skill has increased seriusly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I went from playing on servers with the the only things on : unlimited ammo,vunrability and take off and landing to Full real servers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Thrust me join a good(so with good teammates) squadron and you'll be fine. it'll pXX you off even more in the beginning the FR servers but it's worth it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

02-27-2004, 03:57 AM
o What aircraft are you flying (chiefly?)

o Is this on, or offline?

o Have you set your convergence distance to suit your style (from your description, c.250m)?

I would say whilst learning gunnery stick to ONE aircraft type, jumping around all the time isn't going to help you initially.

As you master the general art, then widen your scope. Pick something stable which doesn't have nose-guns that blind you with muzzle flash. The eight-gun hurricane would be a good place to start, especially as the guns are small calibre and don't kick your aircraft all over the place when firing.

Also, record tracks of your training flights (say, from the quick mission builder) and play back from the enemy's perspective and see where your errant rounds are going with respect to the target. Set unlimited ammo for these flights.

Do all this offline at first, so you don't have to contend with lag.

Hope that helps!

Cheers, Spinner


02-27-2004, 03:57 AM

Here's what I did: Go into the quick mission builder and fly against friendly bombers, the Ju-52 makes a pretty juicy target. Attack them from different angles and notice where your shots land. Oh, and do select unlimited ammo.

Also: Set your mg and cannon convergence to 200m and lower your joystick sensitivity if you're a bit shaky.



02-27-2004, 03:59 AM
It might be worth checking your joystick settings in setup: you don't say what the problem might be, so I'm only guessing, but check that the dead zone is just large enough to take any 'twitchiness' out of your controls - that can lead to over correcting, which is fatal.

Then, go offline, set up a simple mission - against a friendly aircraft - so you don't have to worry about being shot down, give yourself unlimited ammo, and turn on the track recorder...

Now take you time, close in behind him straight and level 'till you're happy, and start shooting. Don't 'spray and pray', but use short bursts - I try to never hold the trigger for more than about half a second, if that..

Once he's gone down, or you've got bored with missing him (!), stop, re-run the track with views set to manual, and each time you fire, flick to the other a/c view, and see where the tracers are going.

Sounds more complicated than it is, but this sort of thing lets you work out where your bullets are going in relation to your sight picture (ie what you're aiming at)

Then it is just loads and loads of practice...
Don't worry - i'm still only just average, and so are many other people - the fun is when you suddenly realise you're getting better. Once you can consistently shoot a straight and level friendly from behind, start attacking him from other angles and heights, using the same analysis technique if you need to. Then start on enemy a/c...

Good luck - stick with it!

02-27-2004, 04:00 AM
If you know how to turn on the Arcade display, then do that, do some Quick missions and record the track. Play them back and see maybe were you're going wrong.

Additionally, go to the IL2 movie makers forum, and watch some highly entertaining movies, as well as some excellent shooting. They make it look easy because they only use the best tracks, but it's informative and fun anyways. Good luck, and hang in there!

Good hunting,

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

02-27-2004, 04:04 AM
Thanks all,

My primary a/craft (99% of the time) is the BF109 - so thanks for all your valuable suggestions. I'll take some up,
I play on-line most of the time.
I have set convergence to 300metres.


02-27-2004, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bartsimpson-:
I've seen you online trying your heart out , but don't give up lot of guys mite recomend try this and try that's all well and good but there's one thing for certain you must! get right and that is learning deflection shooting , ie: aiming ahead of your target and mergeing your shots onto it's flight path taking the speed of the target into consideration - the slower the target the less deflection needed the faster the target the more defletion needed , also very efective when on a targets six o'clock come above or below vectoring in at a 45 degreee angle level out close to 50 yards with a a short burst and your back in the game with a smile on your face . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

practice practice practice and before long you'll be up there with the best .

Good luck .

Bart .

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/photos/profile_74sqn_09.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


02-27-2004, 04:50 AM
It took me a long time to learn how to shoot. Here are some tips:

1. Practice against bombers in the quick mission builder. They are easier to shoot down than fighters... aim for the engines and wing bases.

2. The Bf109 is not the easiest plane to fly or shoot... often the target is obscured by the cockpit. You sometimes need to shoot blind - making educated guesses about where the target is, where it is going and when to pull the trigger.

3. Map Weapons 1 + 2 to the main trigger button so that they both fire simultaneously, maximising your fire power.

4. Set your weapon convergence to between 150 and 200 meters. 200 is good for bombers, 150 is better against fighters since they are smaller and therefore you need to be closer to have a good chance of hitting them. I've had lots of luck using 100 meters convergence as it allows devastating attacks at point blank range but not many people do this.

5. Fire in short bursts... otherwise you will run out of ammo fast. Don't pull the trigger until you are nice and close to the enemy.

6. Don't give up... Practice! It is very rewarding when you finally get it.

02-27-2004, 05:00 AM
7. Use evevator trim. You'll find that when you're flying at high speed the nose of the aircraft will rise if you take your hands off the joystick. This means that you are trying to aim whilst trying to compensate this effect at the same time. Use elevator trim before you engage the enemy to make sure your nose neither rises or falls but instead flys straight and level. This makes aiming _much_ easier.

02-27-2004, 05:26 AM
THere are a few things to remember.

Bullets don't travel as fast as you think, So the following things will affect your aim

1. Deflection, unless your directly head on or astern of the Enemy aircraft, you will have to offset your aim, so your aiming where your opponent WILL be when the bullets get there. this gets easier as you get closer.

2. Bullet Drop, Every bullet starts dropping as soon as it leaves the barrel. so the further away your target is, the higher you will have to aim.

This is just Basics, but basically is what it comes down to, is Get very close. Set your convergance to 100m, and let the target FILL the front windscreen. get so close you can't miss.

Thats what I used to do. And gradually I learned to hammer away from a bit further. But your best off getting CLOSE!

02-27-2004, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sdcruz:
Thanks all,

My primary a/craft (99% of the time) is the BF109 - so thanks for all your valuable suggestions. I'll take some up,
I play on-line most of the time.
I have set convergence to 300metres.


Well mate .... Your frustration is understandable bcause the 109 is a quite hard plane to fly. since U fly online Im pretty sure your problem is, difficulties in deflectionshooting, and online u mostly counter hardturning allied planes = high deflectionangles = 90 degrees.

It is also possible to miss a plane from close behind if U havent trimmed out Ur plane = U have to push stick forward to keep it straight and the result of this is a twitchy aircraft = very hard to aim. Remember to aim a bit over the target.

When it comes to deflectionshooting I usually suggest newbies in the 109 to aim at least 2 or 3 aircraftlenghts ahead of a hardturning allied plane, wich nomally means that the target dissappears below Ur nose = u actually dont see the target. This is what U have to get used to in the 109.

What also makes it so difficult in the 109 is that u have to pull more lead than any allied ac and this means that the 109, wich turns bad and have a slow cannon with dropping trajectory must pull more lead than a wellturning allied plane with fastfiring mg's and flat trajectory = less lead required.

This is why many use the 109 solely as a BnZ fighter. But U still often have to pull much lead to hit.

300m convergence is fine for most flyers since the 109 have the guns mounted close together, exept when using wingcannons.

If u record a track u can study how Ur deflection shooting is improving and U will get used to not seeing Ur target the more times u practis this particular situation.


02-27-2004, 06:56 AM
If you're practicing aim in a 109 then you need to back off from the late war types with the MK108 cannon and focus on the earlier G-6, G-2, and F-4 models. Those will give you better experience in flying and fighting in the 109 and you'll be able to aim the 20mm cannon properly (the 30mm is much harder to aim - I pride myself on usually being precise in shooting but the 108 is very hard).

The G-10/14 and K-4 are for experience pilots only and they are generally much harder to effectively fight in. Thats my general impression.

RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

02-27-2004, 07:03 AM
What!!??? If you are going to give up then you dont deserve to fly this sim. I think you will hang in there and do whatever it takes though...you just sound like that kind of guy.....so heres my 2 cents.....
What kind of connection do you have? You could have some lag issues online that could be adversely effecting your marksmanship. I would suggest that you practice offline more for now till you get a decent level of marksmanship. Then go online. I suggest you practice not against friendly anything because they wont try to evade you... go against enemy planes like say... IL2s.... or even Storches... use the unlimmited ammo untill you get the feel for where your bullets are going then switch off to limmited so you can get a feel for the ammo load and not perpetuate the bad habit of spraying bullets around. Practice with no cockpit untill you get used to how the bullets behave on your plane of choice. Keep all flight settings to realistic except ammo. One things for sure...... once you master the 109 you will be a d@mn good virtual pilot in any other aircraft.

Remember..... this sim is for FUN...have fun... dont worry about your kills so much...... try to have fun..practice....enjoy yourself..... and things will fall into place accordingly. I am no online ace by anymeans..in fact...LOL.. I think I have been shot down by 50% of the guys on this forum at least once. But I have fun...cause thats what its really all about.

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02-27-2004, 07:14 AM
I liked the "having fun" part Bearcat.

02-27-2004, 07:26 AM
Some "random" tips (some already told, sry) to start a first step training.
Check your joystick profile. Too high numbers in the first cursors can make your plane a very unstable firing platform.
Go after a friendly plane, (from 6 at first). Use large targets for first and then smaller ones, as your aim improves.
Try to keep a constant distance, use unlimited ammo (just to avoid continuous refly) but fire only very, very short bursts, and check where the bullets impact. Try with different distances, from 300 to 100 mt. Avoid from 300mt up.
I suggest you to use cannon only or mg only at first, to get accustomed to how each of your gun behaves.
As soon as you get used, select again larger, slower targets and attack them from differnt angles, always using short bursts, to learn good deflection shooting.
Check your attacking speed and try with different speed. Avoid speed below 300kmh on a 109. Use the F4 and the G2 during the first steps. They are easier to handle and even if the 151/20 does less damage than the mk 108, its higher muzzle velocity makes it more reliable in aiming.
This can be enough at least for starting a good training.
As a further aid, here you can download an utility, made by Bruno and myself, to learn and improve your deflection shooting. Hope it helps.
We are working on a newer version. It will be out after the expansion pack http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


[This message was edited by Abraxa on Fri February 27 2004 at 06:40 AM.]

02-27-2004, 07:32 AM
I used to be a horrible shot, no I'm just mediocre. I'm not sure which 109 you're flying but try the G6 or G2 like IceFire said.

Try flying with Arcade view first. You don't have muzzle flashes and a cockpit in the way. You can really see where the bullets go. After awhile you get a good feel where the bullets will hit, switch the cockpit back on.

And definatly get in close, my kill rate went up about 200% when I closed my shooting range from 500 m to 250~.

I've also noticed that offline shooting is a lot different than online. Must be latency that plays hell with bullets. If you practice offline you'll get a better feel where the bullets should be.

Online depending on relative connections, you could be parked on his six and 100 m and still never hit him.


02-27-2004, 08:16 AM
Don't give up! If its hard, its worth doing!
I've been playing this sim since IL days and am
still a very poor / average shot.

Here's an epiphany I just had not more than 2 weeks ago.

Pull lead, then pull some more lead, then pull more!

Jump in one of the Japanese-type planes, like the KI or AM
and setup a Rookie bandit in QMB. Use the zoom to target him
and practice firing at him while pulling lead so that he is
around the outter edges of the target site ring. If he's inside
the circle, you're gonna miss him! Soon you will start seeing little
pieces flying off his plane.

02-27-2004, 08:41 AM
I know exactly what your problem is.

Go to your joystick settings and adjust the sensitivity curve to a parabolic shape not straight as the default.

Something like 1, 4, 9, etc...., the last one being 100.

Guaranteed instant improvement in gunnery.

02-27-2004, 10:18 AM
The Bf-109 series is supposedly a poor gun platform at slow speeds. The aircraft should be a better gun platform at moderate to high speed.

Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

02-27-2004, 07:57 PM
this is going to sound stupid. but take your machine guns down to 100meters and put your canons at 450 or 500 or what ever you like them at when ever you use the machine guns youll hit somthing at least youll tear off some aluminum or cloth and thier plane wont fly as good as normal then you can get in close and use the cannons.....

other than that practice.

02-27-2004, 08:01 PM
.2 is the max range i shoot at, and i dont even shoot that far most of the time.

.15 & under is where its at.

the further away you shoot the less likely you hit. the closer you shoot the more likely you hit and with less deflection.

so its simple.. get close.

www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)

My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)

02-27-2004, 08:04 PM
some convergances i use (i set both cannon and mg the same).

109E4/7: 100m
All other 109's (150m)
Hurricane MkI 125m
P51 150m
FW190 150m

see a trend? i dont shoot until they're atleast 150m. and ill usually get closer than that.

www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)

My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)

02-27-2004, 08:10 PM
i dont think anyone mentioned it but have you adjusted your convergence in the arming window, fly on a winter map dive towards the ground at your normal range you attack at fire the guns and see if all the guns meet in the middle, if they dont alter the distance till they do, most i believe use about 200 ish, not the 500 set by ubi at this distance they will pass the wingtips... below 100 they will cross and pass the wingtips as they diverge again.......... try it it might help http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

02-27-2004, 08:23 PM
Practice with P11c against unarmed enemy TB~3. Just a start as they are big slow targets, and unarmed they don't shoot back. Or try I~153 or something, don't give up if you just get tired of Fb109. Beware of I~153 negative gee engine cutout but you can restart engine above ~200km/hr.

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I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
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02-27-2004, 08:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53_Gutted:
some convergances i use (i set both cannon and mg the same).

109E4/7: 100m
All other 109's (150m)
Hurricane MkI 125m
P51 150m
FW190 150m

see a trend? i dont shoot until they're atleast 150m. and ill usually get closer than that.

http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif" (http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif)

_My IL2 movies:_
+ http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html (39mb)
+ http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv (30.6mb)

Exactly, well said. You said you couldn't hit anything at .3 and .2 km's? Don't worry, it's not easy even for a veteran to hit from those ranges. Get in close-that's what all the aces did in real life. Don't shoot unless you KNOW you're going to hit your target, that means getting so close you feel like you're gotta hit em...once your aim gets better and you begin to get a real feel for deflection shooting, then you can start shooting at 200 meters if you wish-I'm a pretty good shot but still love to get in close.

Once again, listen to gutted. He knows what he's talking about, if you download his movies you'll see just how good of a shot he is. In fact, you can learn a lot by watching other players and tracks and such...so I recommend you also try watching others to see how they shoot.

Don't give up on the game, it only gets funner and funner as you get better..so just keep working at it! Plus, even if you do quit, you know you're gonna come back...FB's just addictive that way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards, and good luck



02-27-2004, 08:47 PM
All the above is excellent information.
2 things though I would like to stress.

1. Have fun! I can barely shoot the broadside of a Finnish Gulf mountain but I have a ball trying. 95% of the people I've met through this game are great people. It's hard to beat a fun sim and nice people.

2. It only took 5 kills to be an Ace. Now if that's all it took, why wasn't everyone an ace? Because in real life it is extremely difficult to shoot down a plane. This sim is the most realistic sim on the market today IMHO. That realism is just one of the reason's so many of us have stuck with this game long after we left other games.

Whatever you do, don't despair. You will get better. If you can find some folks to fly with regularly (like a squad) your enjoyment will increase dramaticly.

Hang in there.



02-27-2004, 09:07 PM
Maybe someone already suggested this but I don't have time to read all. Play offline in quickmission. Give yourself another team so they won't use evasive manuevers until after you've opened fire. Start recording, get their 6 and blast them, ignor the radio whining, they pledged to die for their country. Then play the tracks and see where your bullets are actually going. Keep doing this and I'm sure you'll find that you weren't shooting where you thought you were. Then just play with your weapons convergence and you'll find you own style. Just an idea.


02-27-2004, 10:56 PM
My advice: Play offline in quick mission. Use an IL-2I (the air-to-air interceptor model). It's got two powerful cannons in the wings, but
1) Since it has no nose weapons, you don't get blinded by muzzle blast, and
2) It's amazingly stable while firing.

Fly against bombers (HE-111 is a decent one) or FW-190s set to novice. The IL-2I can take abuse from all but the biggest bombers, so don't worry too much about rear gunners.

I-16 and IL-2I.

"I hear the roar of a big machine; Two worlds and in between.
Love lost, fire at will; Dum-dum bullets and shoot to kill.
I hear dive bombers and Empire down, Empire down..."
--Sisters of Mercy

02-27-2004, 11:50 PM
Welcome to the not being able to shoot squat most of the time club. When you play online and use the bf109 what I do is to get the ones with the gunpods that way hopefully on the 1st head-on pass b/t you and the enemy fighter your gunpods will take him out. lol Worked for me though it's nothing to brag about.

Of course now I'm trying to do it the other way but I tell ya it is hard trying to stay on someone's tail but just seeing a couple of pieces coming off is a good feeling even if you cannot shoot it down most of the time. Again I'm still using the bf109 w/ the gunpods.

Or if you're tired of not hitting anything try being the dive-bombers, He111. That's what I am doing most of the time now switching b/t fighters and dive bombers. It's fun diving onto planes, AA, etc. If someone attacks you you can use the rear gun if you're trigger happy but it is hard to fly the plane and fire the rear gun at the same time. My kill rate on the ju87 is probably 80-95%. Now I need to learn how to land better to increase my score.

02-28-2004, 01:22 AM
I can't hit $hit either . Never could. But I still shoot the $hit out of everyone like this:

Set cannon convergence at 150 meters. Fire at opponent at 200 meters or less if you can. 200 to 300 meters? Forget it! That is your whole problem. YOu have to get close enough to them to give them a armor piercing enema!