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jfri
04-12-2004, 09:16 AM
I'm new to and learning FOB. One thing I found very tricky is to have situation awareness. If plane is lost from the field of view it can be very tricky to find it again. I use the no cockpit view and the hatswitch. How do you do?
Also after spotting the plane it's very tricky to shoot it down because things happens so fast and you need to come very close and the they also shoot at you.

jfri
04-12-2004, 09:16 AM
I'm new to and learning FOB. One thing I found very tricky is to have situation awareness. If plane is lost from the field of view it can be very tricky to find it again. I use the no cockpit view and the hatswitch. How do you do?
Also after spotting the plane it's very tricky to shoot it down because things happens so fast and you need to come very close and the they also shoot at you.

Maple_Tiger
04-12-2004, 09:26 AM
I tend to use my mouse more often in FR to look around. It's smoother to look around using the mouse then it is using the hat switch.

Also make shure your resolution is 1024 by 768, the game was optomized for this resolution.

The size of your monitor will also play a role visualy. I have 19inch monitor and when i buy a new one it will be atleast a 23inch lol.

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Tully__
04-12-2004, 09:28 AM
More than anything else, practice.

If you have icons turned off, you might find that setting the game to a lower resolution may help a little too. Though my system and graphic card can handle 1280x960, I use 1024x768 as a good compromise for me between good looking and ease of spotting.

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heywooood
04-12-2004, 09:35 AM
use padlock key f4 or f5 ?..

this might only work in cockpit view .. I've not flown this sim any other way.

press padlock when you have aquired the target and your view is locked on the target,hence the term.

georgeo76
04-12-2004, 09:38 AM
As you become more experienced w/ fighter AC you'll find keeping track of boogies easier. The reason being that once a bad guy leaves your field of view, you'll be able to make educated guesses about where he went and what he's doing. You see, 9 times out of 10 there is a 'best' thing to do in any given situation. The more you fly, the more predictable you opponents will be. There will come a point @ which you know where to look for your opponent after the merge w/o having to 'search' for him.

Flying_Nutcase
04-12-2004, 09:49 AM
Hi Jfri I haven't been playing IL2 for long but there's a big transition you make. When I first started I tried flying against an AI fighters and I absolutely got my *** waxed every time. So I flew only against IL2s with no tail gunner for a while, then IL2s armed with tail guns and increased there level from rookie gradually up to ace. After being able to shoot down those boys consistently I started out on the oldest LaGG on rookie. By then my skills had increased a lot and I was nailing them consistently before long, and so it went on. And that's what you'll find. Start easy (some say to fly against friendly bombers first), and work your way up bit by bit. I did the same thing with gunnery. I really sucked for a long time, then I spent about a week analysing every kill to see exactly where on the gunsight the target lay when I hit the trigger and the approx angle of the target (the 'angle off'). In general folks don't give enough lead. That was my problem and it takes a lot of discipline to place the center of the crosshairs well in advance of the target before firing. But it's a rush when you lead right! Of course as most of the flyers here will say, get in close. Most consider about 200m to be a common maximum against fighters. If you are shooting at a plane flying at an angle to you'll often need to shoot when it's about half way across the sight ring. Sometimes even when it's on the ring or even on the edge of the sight itself. It takes faith but it's hellishly satisfying when you can pull it off. Sorry for all this being in one paragraph. Sometimes I can't use the enter button when writing a reply. Don't know why. Ciao Nutcase PS TrackIR2 is a device that senses your head movement and changes the view on-screen to match. It's VERY VERY good. Whether you can afford it or not, GET IT! I'm sure noone has regreted buying one. It'll change your whole experience of the game and make you a much better dogfighter (you'll be able to keep the target in sight much easier) and it'll enable better situational awareness. TrackIR2 is sold by 'edimensional' for about $US130. Have fun.

jfri
04-12-2004, 05:24 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
I tend to use my mouse more often in FR to look around. It's smoother to look around using the mouse then it is using the hat switch.

I find the mouse tricky to use considering when
you wan't to center the view again.

Also make shure your resolution is 1024 by 768, the game was optomized for this resolution.

I do

The size of your monitor will also play a role visualy. I have 19inch monitor and when i buy a new one it will be atleast a 23inch lol.

I have a 17.

jfri
04-12-2004, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by heywooood:
use padlock key f4 or f5 ?..

Padlock seems not work for me. Sometimes it does but often not.

jfri
04-12-2004, 05:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by georgeo76:
As you become more experienced w/ fighter AC you'll find keeping track of boogies easier. The reason being that once a bad guy leaves your field of view, you'll be able to make educated guesses about where he went and what he's doing. You see, 9 times out of 10 there is a 'best' thing to do in any given situation. The more you fly, the more

Yes I can already make some guesse about where the opponent is but still it can be a little tricky to spot it again.

jfri
04-12-2004, 05:34 PM
So I flew only against IL2s with no tail gunner for a while, then IL2s armed with tail guns and increased there level from rookie gradually up to ace. After being able to shoot down those boys consistently I started out on the oldest LaGG on rookie.

What plane was you flying? I fly the La-5FN and
against german planes. For example the He 111.
It's really difficult to hit the target. I must get so close that I risk a collision.

Call_me_Kanno
04-12-2004, 05:39 PM
All good advice given. An old FB veteran gave some advice when I was haveing the same trouble and it has worked out pretty good for me. That is to not look for the enemy plane but to focus on the scenery where you think he is. When I started doing this I noticed I could spot a object moving against it much better.

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Maple_Tiger
04-12-2004, 06:01 PM
Use F6 to padlock enemy planes, that is if it's enabled.



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TooCooL34
04-12-2004, 08:50 PM
Equip bigger, brighter monitor first.

Get TrackIR second.

Now pan, stay, pan, stay, and pan, stay.. you'll find it easy.

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altstiff
04-12-2004, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jfri:
I'm new to and learning FOB. One thing I found very tricky is to have situation awareness. If plane is lost from the field of view it can be very tricky to find it again. I use the no cockpit view and the hatswitch. How do you do?
Also after spotting the plane it's very tricky to shoot it down because things happens so fast and you need to come very close and the they also shoot at you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good reason to fly with cockpit on. You get very disoriented with it off once you look around with the hat switch.

See you in the fence....

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Longjocks
04-12-2004, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jfri:
Padlock seems not work for me. Sometimes it does but often not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That'd be because padlock requires two criteria. First the enemy has to be within a certain range. I believe it's under 3kms. The second is that the enemy plane must be in your current field of view. If you're looking forward and the enemy is to your left, it will not lock. You need to look in his direction first.

When starting out it can be handy to use icons to easiy spot the enemy. Once you're confident with your flying, switch them off and use the map to see where enemy planes are and search the appropriate piece of sky to find them (remember to look up and down as the map gives no altitude info). Once you get used to spotting enemy planes you can turn the map icons off and see how you go.

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Jezzadog
04-13-2004, 04:37 AM
Topics involving situational awareness and field of view are, in my opinion, one of the most important issues for PC flight sims.

In particular, those of us with flight experience find it most disconcerting to have to take on a simulated combat task that, in reality, demands a high degree of situational awareness and good lookout; but whilst being severely limited by the instantaneous FOV provided by a monitor screen and controller peripherals.

This topic has fostered lots of good advice from those with plenty of experience; and once again I'm impressed by the usual unselfish and intelligent comment found at this site.

Like jfri, I've got low experience on PC flight sims, but have experimented a bit and have come up with a few ideas that might help (they work for me - to some degree). For what it's worth:

View: I work mainly in wide view (takeoff, cruise, manoeuvring flight, acquiring targets etc)- it gives me greater external peripheral vision and at the same time allows me to view the more important instruments/controls more readily (I don't look for absolute numbers, just trends). I use normal view when getting in close for a guns pass. I use gunsight view when trying to identify targets. I rarely fire in gunsight view because I find its difficult to achieve smooth flight control inputs and things get very "squirrely" very rapidly.

No cockpit: Don't! Live with what would be in front of you in real life. It might be more difficult to see objects because of instrument coaming, canopy bows etc, but that's one challenge you must accept.

Looking around: A must for a combat pilot! How to do it? I'm still trying to find out! I rarely use the mouse because I lose perspective very easily (where is centre?) and frequently find myself in an "unusual attitude". I limit mouse use to looking around when I am in a stabilized flight attitude - mainly straight and level. I mostly use the hat switch (in either pan or snap mode); but try to give myself an external reference (the horizon) to fly by whilst looking up/side/back - but frequently return my view to straight ahead. eg, in 60 to 90 degree bank, looking 'up' allows me to look for aircraft while being able to maintain aircraft attitude with reference to the horizon.

Set up: I use my joystick switches for all views. Hat switch for looking around, one switch near throttle for 'toggle view', and use two switches to the right of the hat for increase/decrease view (natural sense: the forward switch decreases view - wide reducing to gunsight, the aft switch expands view). I have reversed the hat switch controls for 'look up,look down' - ie to look up use the 180 deg position and look down the 0 deg posn. This is a more natural thing for me, because generally when I'm looking up I'm looking into a turn ie the flight stick is coming back and therefore the FOV switching should be in the same sense - coming back.

Acquiring/reacquiring: Good comment from call_me_kanno - for camouflaged situations (aircraft against ground) look at the scenery for movement. Contrast can help - if necessary, get below where you expect the bogey to be and highlight him against the sky (lo level lo speed not good so keep your speed up!). But importantly, once you've spotted him/her, don't lose sight - at least until your first pass - thereafter, if you're like me, all bets are off.

Noob to Noob, hope this helps.

"The mark of a true combat pilot is that he can throw his aircraft at the ground - and miss"

jfri
04-13-2004, 09:05 AM
just trends). I use normal view when getting in close for a guns pass.

Here I switch to gunsight view

I use gunsight view when trying to identify targets. I rarely fire in gunsight view because I find its difficult to achieve smooth flight control inputs and things get very "squirrely" very rapidly.

What view do you then fire in?

No cockpit: Don't! Live with what would be in front of you in real life. It might be more difficult to see objects because of instrument coaming, canopy bows etc, but that's one challenge you must accept.

In real life you don't have to use switches to look around. I have found that switching of cockpit enables me to find and attack the target. What I know find very difficult is to hit the target hard enough to shoot it down.

Looking around: A must for a combat pilot! How to do it? I'm still trying to find out!

I think I am starting to get it working.

antifreeze
04-14-2004, 06:14 AM
Whatever settings changes you make, play with them for a couple of weeks before deciding whether to continue with them. It takes this long to get used to new settings and button arrangements. Be prepared for much frustration for the first few days if you make the settings harder.

I started off playing 'full real + externals + padlock + speedbar + minimap', but I was forced into 'full real + speedbar' because I joined a squad and started playing VOW online war. I hated it for about one week (not even being able to take off properly), then I loved it (incredible immersion) but was still very frustrated for the second week, and by the third and fourth weeks I was wondering how I could have ever considered playing with any other settings, even though I knew there was still weeks of practise ahead of me before my chances of survival were acceptable.

Using mouse/hatswitch/joystick is difficult, no doubt about it.
A dll plugin that can help is NewView (http://www.forgotten.battles.pulpo.co.uk/NewView26.zip). I use two joysticks with NewView now rather than joystick/mouse, but using it at a basic level it will improve your hatswitch movement and it will automatically move your head in the direction your are turning into. It does some other view stuff too.

If you decide to play with padlock, make sure you have 'instant view forward with padlock' assigned to a joystick button and use it just before your target goes out of vision.

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PBNA-Boosher
04-14-2004, 09:27 AM
Every 10-12 seconds I scan the skies by looking to 9:00, then 3:00, then I look up, then back over my wings. It might seem like overkill, but it works. The only time I don't do it regularly is in combat with other planes, as my wingman does it for me.

XyZspineZyX
04-14-2004, 12:45 PM
I'm still learning but:
Use gunsight mode/ wideview to look around and spot the target, shift to middle view to acquire the kill. I find close up makes things really sensitive but then again I'm a bit hamfisted anyway.
Learning to lead the stream and getting it right, is a buzz. WHen pulling up following the target you have to sometimes take a blind shot when the target starts to disappear under your nose. They usually come back into view smoking.
Learn how the stream is affected in different manouvers, gauge where the stream will hit, don't shoot with the throttle firewalled.
The thing that helped me the most, was the dogfight with the two P40s and Zeros in the movie Pearl Harbour

leadbaloon
04-14-2004, 01:34 PM
I use the mouse with my left hand, it takes a little getting used to, but after a couple of days or so it becomes second nature. I have the hat switch set to the snap view, so if I do ever get disorientated all that it takes is a flick of the thumb to centre the view.

And you will have to get in close to guarantee hitting your target, the trick is learning to avoid the collision.

LEXX_Luthor
04-14-2004, 03:15 PM
For Newbie mouse lookers, increase Mouse Sensitivity in FB input menu to 5.0 or 10.0 (the max) and then you can mouse look around and hardly move your hand. That is what made me choose mouse look and frees up good joystick buttons. Takes a little getting used to but its worth it after a flight or two.

But, for serious QMB or FMB work you must decrease your mouse settings again or the mouse flip flops all over the screen.



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RicknZ
04-14-2004, 06:44 PM
PLanes are limited in the direction they can go (well duh you say)so for me if i lose track of a plane i paint a mental image of where the enemy will likely be to reaquire him.

More often than not (pratice) im right on.

Its sort of akin to driving at night, sure you cant see everything but you dont need to in order to visualise your situation.

Am i making any sense?

JG14_Josf
04-14-2004, 10:24 PM
Track files (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/tracks.htm)

The above site is a valuable resource of information. The site includes the track page where you can see how others manage to use the controls for viewing, including one by Old_Canuck.

If you are just starting out then this is a prime time to begin learning what is bound to become THE system to use for on-line gaming i.e. Fluid perspective movement such as Track IR or mouse view or in my case a thumb operated micro stick on the throttle acting as a mouse.

Take the time to look at the tracks and see how fluid the movement of view or perspective can be with these methods and devices and compare this inovative viewing system to Snap Views.

Besides being more realistic; the fluid perspective change is less disorienting, certainly for those who have not yet grown accustomed to Snap Views.

In our squad we have 3 guys now moving from snap views to Track IR and the feedback is possitive.

Spotting targets can still be difficult and for this problem it can help to map at least 2 viewing angles. I use 4 viewing angles. Gunsight, FOV50, Normal, and Wide angle.

Consider the possibility that since Track IR allows your head to control the views (much like your actual head does help control your views) your hat switch can be used for something else; like viewing angles.
For example:
Push the hat switch right and you get gunsight view, Push the hat switch to the left and you get wide angle view, push the hat switch forward and you center your view forward(overriding the Track IR), Push the Hat switch back and you look at the instruments.

Ha ha did you fall for that last one?

With Track IR all you have to do to look at the instruments is point your head at the instruments.

Bucketrider
04-15-2004, 09:21 AM
clean your monitor screen. I was chasing a dust-mite hanging out on my screen for five minutes!...*phfffft!*
I too have a real hard time spotting targets. I've been practicing off-line with full real, it just takes time and a lot of eye strain. I use Newview for the joy hatswitch and I can manage a pretty good situ. aware. with that...
Most of the time on-line I get jacked and never know what hit me...but if I manage to track my opponent and stay alive, 'specially difficult with out wingmen...and we really get into it, there's no other game like this one.
The tracers and sound of the bullets hitting the fuselage is scary as hell when you're not expecting it...it's awesome.